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Apologies for any confusion, this project thread does hit a ton of different topics.
When I started chasing down the oil leaks, there was a significant leak from the somewhere on the front cover. It was on the WP, opti, dampener, swap bar, CPS and down the front of the pan. Additionally, I had seen oil on the trans, but I wasn't sure where it was coming from. Since I knew the front was severe, I decided to tackle that first and work my way back.
As I dug into the front and started reading about the seals, it became quickly apparent that when the engine was out of the car being assembled, that the WP seal was installed incorrectly. From here, the WP, opti and balancer/hub were removed. I dropped the pan, and removed the front cover. The seals were removed from the timing cover and mating surfaces cleaned. I reinstalled the damper and opti seals, then reinstalled the timing cover on the engine. I then made the Sharpie tool for the WP seal and installed it.
From there, I decided since the pan was off, I was going to replace the dip stick. The stock stick had the weld separate from the mount. The challenge here was that the splayed main bearing caps made a tight fit where the tube would not easily slide into place. I ended up breaking a Lokar stick at the o-ring tapping it into place. When buying a replacement and talking to the speed shop, I was advised to trim the tube back to where the interference was. This made installation a breeze.
Thus started the issues with the oil pan seal. After all of the oil pan gasket attempts, I did locate the extra o-rings on the studs, which was impacting my situation, but I was unsure if it was 100% of the problem. I noticed a small dot of oil below the RMS (where it was in the picture) after adding oil to the car, but before installing the starter and dust shield. I also noticed oil coming from the slave cylinder lower bolt; but the fly where still looks pristine. I cleaned up both areas, reinstalled the starter and dust shield, then took the car out for about 25 minutes.
The car ran weak, as I mentioned before, which is a separate issue, and there was a strange rattle (which I was thinking could be causing the car to retard timing for knock). It idled fine (though I had to keep a bit of throttle on it to keep it running until it came up to temp).
I pulled the car back into the garage, and let it sit over night. On inspection the following day (just poking my head under the car), there are no drops near the front of the car, but is a small puddle, about the size of a salad plate, just behind the pan.
It still might not be the RMS, but based on seeing the oil again below the seal after filling the car and before running it, I am skeptical that it could be coming from anywhere else. I did not RTV the whole pan side of the gasket, so it still could be the Canton pan. I am planning to pull at very least the started and dust shield this weekend.
I noticed a small dot of oil below the RMS (where it was in the picture) after adding oil to the car, but before installing the starter and dust shield. I also noticed oil coming from the slave cylinder lower bolt;
I pulled the car back into the garage, and let it sit over night. On inspection the following day (just poking my head under the car), there are no drops near the front of the car, but is a small puddle, about the size of a salad plate, just behind the pan.
I did not RTV the whole pan side of the gasket, so it still could be the Canton pan. I am planning to pull at very least the started and dust shield this weekend.
so just pouring oil in motor, without starting, it leaks oil at rear?
weird as the oil level in pan would not be at top of pan let alone RMS
a "salad plate" size oil spot is a big leak from overnight
did you install the gasket between oil filter adapter and block?
and between block and RMS adapter plate?
I would try the oil dye before tearing into this again. If you do wind up dropping the Canton again, use RTV between pan & gasket
FWIW the stock pan works fine on stroker motors with minimal if any clearanceing
I was thinking oil ran that direction a small amount since the car was raised in the front and oil came down to the pan from the head.
I have an oil cooler on my car. There is a gasket that looks like an oil filter that goes on the top of that, before it bolts to the car.
The puddle is I would guess between 6-8", wide.
You are right about the dye before(/if) the transmission comes out. I still want to pull the starter and dust shield to inspect. Do you think the best process would be to add the dye, drive it for 15-20 minutes, then leave it over night and inspect?
You are right about the dye before(/if) the transmission comes out. I still want to pull the starter and dust shield to inspect. Do you think the best process would be to add the dye, drive it for 15-20 minutes, then leave it over night and inspect?
yes, but wipe off whatever oil is there now.
You can buy oil dye at auto part stores but you will need a blacklight and yellow glasses. Sometimes they are in "kits". Amazon has some blacklight flashlights and goggle kits along with dye
oil will migrate down to the lowest point. A 6"-8" puddle is a significant leak so it should show up quick
Oil dye applied, and there is oil coming from the top rear of the engine. This is flowing down the drive side to the oil filter and rear of the block. I am unsure f this is the sole source of leak that is ending up at the bottom of the rear main, and will need to fix this leak, clean the block, then test again.
I also need to figure out how to get a good view of the back of the block to ensure if the leak is the intake manifold, or the oil pressure sender. I will attempt the phone camera this evening.
Great call on the dye. After wiping down the back of the block with clean rags a few times and not seeing anything wet, I would have never looked here.
rear intake manifold leak is fairly common. the oil migrates down to the lowest point...often appearing, among other places, a drop on bottom of crank making it "appear" the RMS is culprit
Using a hand held mirror and the blacklight to see rear of intake area works for me.
If this is a intake leak get the FelPro "printo" seal gaskets and use Permatex Black "ultra" RTV. REALLY clean all surfaces and wipe down with acetone before re-assembly. Use rags to cover the engine galley from any falling debris as you clean motor..and remember to remove the rags before assembly :-)
good idea to first vacuum or use air compressor to clear any crud that nestles in intake/head cavity before removing intake so that crap does not fall in motor
To inspect the rear of the engine, a friend let me borrow a bore scope. I didn't have a mirror, and free was a better option. I was a bit panicked when I started looking at the engine, but when seeing the pictures on the computer, I can see the line of oil coming down the head gasket.
Above cylinder 8:
Looking up towards the intake manifold up the gasket:
The last picture looks like the RTV got pushed out on the driver side corner. I think the oil is coming out that corner, then running down the crevice where the head gasket is then down the oil filter.
The car is cracked open again today, and I was surprised how easy the intake was versus what I was expecting. The biggest pain was getting the steam pipe off the back of the heads.
I am at a halt however, because the gaskets I bought (Felpro 1284), do not fit the heads. I bought a different set at the store today Felpro MS 95580, and they match up with the 1284.
This is the first set of gaskets that I have bought for the intake. I thought the LT1 and LT4 gaskets were the same, but its off. This is an LT4 conversion kit that I bought from a dealership that included the gaskets, heads and intake. I had the intake port matched to the gasket, and the heads ported and polished by 10 Liter Performance in Colorado.
The small plastic tabs that hold the gasket to the heads are about 1/4 off on either side. The port holes on the old gaskets are also taller.
Ground shipping from Summit is the best, the new gaskets will be in today. It left me for an easy Sunday. I ended up doing a front brake job on the wife's car, so something that came apart got to go back together.
I normally don't shop at NAPA because their cost seems to be high.
I might have ran 1/4" up the heads before, but will definitely run up more this time. Ultra black is primed and ready to go. Do you use any RTV on the intake bolts?
By coming off easily, I meant more the process of getting everything off. Including draining the coolant, and cleaning the intake, heads and China walls I was just over 2 hours of time. The hardest part of the process was getting the steam pipe off the back of the driver side. Do the gaskets for that need to be replaced? Anyhow, prying at the front passenger side off the accessory bracket was required. Looking at the RTV left behind, my best guess is that I did not get the intake aligned correctly when I put it on and had to slide it forward, pushing the rear RTV bead out from under the intake.
04-01-2018, 03:14 PM
