DrewHMS97SS

I like it. My friend is going to let me borrow an inspection scope tomorrow, which I hope will give me a better view of the issue. I bought a full Fel-Pro set, so the oil cooler gasket was also replaced, but here is to hoping for something simple like that. I have another one if that is the case. I'm not 100% confident on it not being the pan though because it looks to be running down from the center of the pan.

At least I am down to about an hour for getting the pan bolts off/on once the starter and oil cooler are removed (using the gasket fishing method).

DrewHMS97SS

The car pretty much hates me. I pulled the pan again, and used a small bead to ultra black across the back portion of the gasket, and I still have a drop a minute leak at the back corner of the pan, above the starter.

The car has a Canton pan, and I am using a Felpro 1 piece gasket. On top of the RTV on the rear of the gasket, I used my finger to smear some into the corners at the front and back of the pan. Before reinstalling the gasket, I cleaned the top and bottom with brake clean, plus the oil pan rails and block.

Is there anything else you guys would suggest I try? I am almost thinking about the 4 piece gasket at this point...

Also, after letting it run for a few minutes last night, I opened the weep hole at the top of the water pump, and had no fluid exiting. The car got just over 200, before I shut it down. I have a 160 thermostat, and the car has not seen a temperature this high. I know the shaft connecting the drive on the timing cover is connected to the pump and the radiator is topped off. Is there anything else I am missing?

DrewHMS97SS

I did torque the bolts in a center spiral out pattern (starting with 1/2 torque on the corner studs). Unless my info is wrong, 106 lbs in on the rail bolts, and 15 lbs ft on the corner studs.

I will try pulling the thermostat out to fill the block, that's a great idea =D

Thanks, I will need some luck. At very least, I feel like all of the leak issues from the front of the engine are resolved, and if its just a tiny leak, from the rear, I might deal with it until the fall. I don't think I had issues with the pan leaking when I used RTV on the whole pan, so the next step might be to support the engine and drop the cross member. With how I have been doing it, there simply isnt enough room to RTV everything.

DrewHMS97SS

Hopefully not something up with the pan, it's a Canton track pan, which was pretty expensive. I think you are right about the corners, and feel like I should have just used RTV around the whole pan on the block side again. But that would be a bit hard without dropping the pan all the way down. I think it will most likely come to that. With the pan off, I will check for straightness again on the sides and corners, flailing the hammer where needed.

The leak is slow enough (at this point), that I think I can just wipe it up after it sits when I pull it out of the garage. The floor is painted, so I am not worried about oil absorbing into cement.

If it is a small leak out of the corner, what are my chances of getting enough of a seal by cleaning, drying, and adding RTV?

Injuneer

I have no direct experience with Canton oil pan, but over the years seems like more than a few people have had QC problems with leaks. Here's an example:

https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/lt1...oblems-102496/

Do a Google search on "canton LT1 oil pan problems". Threads from here and ls1tech.com pop up.

DrewHMS97SS

Thanks Fred. When I first had the car going I had the leak described in the thread you linked, and ended up pulling the plug and sealing the threads with Permatex thread sealer. I think this one has to be the rear portion of the pan sealing at the corner near the stud. Ill check out ls1tech too.

Injuneer

One of the other threads that came up described a pinhole leak in a weld.

DrewHMS97SS

There is a ton of chatter about windage issues with the Canton pan too. I have never seen oil pressure drop, even in hard turns. Looking at the welds on the pan, they are definitely not as well done as say, my BMR parts, but they look okay.

What pan did you end up with in your build? The only reason I changed the pan was stroker clearance.

Chimera96

IMHO use RTV between pan & gasket vs block and gasket. The block is machined flat...whereas the pan would be more prone to deformity. Yeah you can do both sides all around for stubborn leaks but that is way more than you should have to do and makes later pan removal difficult

Canton pan, unlike a stocked stamped one, should not need to have the bolt holes flattened with a hammer. I have read several threads of Canton pans having sealing issues. YMMV

A 383 stroker can use a stock pan. The block walls are notched to clear rod bolts. The only clearance problem I had with my stock pan, and this was WITHOUT a pan gasket to test for clearance, was # 2 rod bolt BARELY scratched the pan. I laid the pan on block (on stand) without gasket (which adds about 3/16" installed) and had a friend rotate the motor while I held my ear to the pan. I could barely here the contact and the scratch left was barely visible. I just folded a towel on my bench to put the pan on and grabbed a wood baseball bat and used the big end to push pan from inside (read did not beat on it with a hammer) and pushed the pan out some. Checked clearance again and it was good, still without gasket. The gasket also gave me more of a clearance and I would have been fine without pushing the pan out some but did it anyway.

Regarding the windage tray. I just used 1/8" washers on the long main studs to space it further away from the crank. Also used a 1/8" washer for the one bolt that goes through tray and into oil pump

My pan is bone dry, no leaks. I use Permatex Black "ultra" RTV on both ends and run it up about 1" on the flat part of the block front & back

DrewHMS97SS

It has been so long since the engine was on a stand, it is hard to recall all of the details. I know the stock pan hit in 4 or 5 places on mine while sitting on the block without the gasket. I had decided in my mind at that point if there was any contact that I was not going to bother trying to make the stock pan work. In retrospect, I could have saved $400 and worked with the pan, and had more side clearance as a result.

I cannot see any leaking around the sides or holes of the pan, nor on the front cover (albeit a limited run time).

If this was a rear main leak, would it be towards the bottom of the pan, or could it sill only be off to the side?

Chimera96

a RMS leak would find its way down center. IDK if you have a stick or auto.

If stick you can look up from bottom of bellhousing through that small rectangle slit and see the end of crank where FW bolts and if there is a drop on bottom of crank than likely the RMS leaks

for auto you just remove the dust cover from bottom of bellhousing to then see the same thing

some flour dusting of rear of pan (once wiped clean), especially corners, should reveal a fluid trail if it is leaking from pan/block after a short drive

If it is the pan leaking from gasket I would RTV between seal and pan vs block & seal as I mentioned earlier

At this point considering you have dropped pan a few times...going both sides of pan gasket would cover all bases

IDK if I mentioned this earlier...I replaced a pan gasket before because of a leak right after I installed a new pan gasket. When I removed the pan gasket I found one of the metal spacers that is "inside" the pan gasket corner holes was still lodged onto the stud from RMS adapter thus acting as a spacer...it was a "doh" moment and self inflicted but I got careless and did not look close enough when I installed the new pan gasket to see it. and yeah doing this with motor in car was a HUGE PIA

DrewHMS97SS

It's a stick (updating my signature right after I post this). I did not see any oil towards the back center of the pan, so I am sure it must be something with the pan gasket itself. I am internally debating taking the gasket out again or dealing with the pin leak. I am leaning towards fixing it now rather than waiting, but need some time to reflect away from the pan.

Injuneer

Stock pan, stock windage tray. Did take a couple mild hammer taps to clear the stroker crank. Same shop used stock pan/tray on a friend's 1,125 flywheel HP 383 high Vortech boost LT1 with no problems.... 9.0 @ 156 MPH. He was glad he was using the stock pan when he had to replace it after a hard drop from a huge wheelstand.

But neither of these cars are corner carvers, just straight line.

DrewHMS97SS

MMMMMMMM wheel stands. The allure is there, but I also like holding a turn at high speed. It makes me wish there was a best for everything so I could do 8 second 1/4 passes, then go tear up an autocross course.

Do you have pics of your car around?

DrewHMS97SS

Question, I haven't used RTV on the water pump bolts previously, is this required?