I have Solved the Power Window Issue :)
07-09-2004, 06:04 PM
#47
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 201
Lots of questions on this from everybody else, and I am confused my self. Some more information for clarity would be excellent. -- OR just wire some up and sell them and you have a customer right here.
07-10-2004, 04:05 AM
#50
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 709
Originally posted by LWillmann
Yes, they are wired together so that if one goes bad, the other might work and might not. When my passenger side switch finally went totally bad, the driver's side wouldn't work at all.
Yes, they are wired together so that if one goes bad, the other might work and might not. When my passenger side switch finally went totally bad, the driver's side wouldn't work at all.
07-11-2004, 12:26 PM
#51
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,555
Isnt 8 guage a little overkill? Did you run that all the way from the power source (im assuming the fuse box), or just inside the doors? What size is the stock wiring?
The larger works better because it has less voltage drop. I dont know if it actually lets more current flow. It probably lowers current flow, as current comes down as voltage rises. If the stock wiring was too small, it would simply burn through, not flow less current.
So the way I see it, larger wire = less voltage drop. More voltage at the motor = faster running. More voltage also = less current, and makes the motors more efficient, and should make them last longer.
Smaller stock sized wire would provide sufficiant current flow (obviously as it doesnt burn up), but is small enough that you probably get a volt or two drop from the power source. That makes the motor run slower, and pull more current, and fail sooner.
I dont what you guys are thinking saying under-current can hurt a motor. The only way thats possible is if your battery was dead. The problem here is undervoltage. That causes the motor to use more current, and leads to burned windings.
Anyone know how much current these motors use? If not I could figure it out later. We could size the wire accourdingly. Seems to me 8 guage is overkill, and would be much harder to work with. 14 guage should handle 20 amps, 12 - 30 amps, 10 - 40 amps, 8 - 50 amps. Seems like a good 12 or 10 guage at the most would work well. I wonder what sock size it
The larger works better because it has less voltage drop. I dont know if it actually lets more current flow. It probably lowers current flow, as current comes down as voltage rises. If the stock wiring was too small, it would simply burn through, not flow less current.
So the way I see it, larger wire = less voltage drop. More voltage at the motor = faster running. More voltage also = less current, and makes the motors more efficient, and should make them last longer.
Smaller stock sized wire would provide sufficiant current flow (obviously as it doesnt burn up), but is small enough that you probably get a volt or two drop from the power source. That makes the motor run slower, and pull more current, and fail sooner.
I dont what you guys are thinking saying under-current can hurt a motor. The only way thats possible is if your battery was dead. The problem here is undervoltage. That causes the motor to use more current, and leads to burned windings.
Anyone know how much current these motors use? If not I could figure it out later. We could size the wire accourdingly. Seems to me 8 guage is overkill, and would be much harder to work with. 14 guage should handle 20 amps, 12 - 30 amps, 10 - 40 amps, 8 - 50 amps. Seems like a good 12 or 10 guage at the most would work well. I wonder what sock size it
07-11-2004, 03:43 PM
#52
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Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 27,709
According to the schematic, the stock wires are 3mm², which is the equivalent of 12 AWG.
Some of the problem probably stems from the amount of switches and connectors the juice for the motor has to run through. Just having the direct power and ground available by the relay would bypass all that mess.
Some of the problem probably stems from the amount of switches and connectors the juice for the motor has to run through. Just having the direct power and ground available by the relay would bypass all that mess.
07-11-2004, 04:07 PM
#53
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,555
Originally posted by shoebox
According to the schematic, the stock wires are 3mm², which is the equivalent of 12 AWG.
Some of the problem probably stems from the amount of switches and connectors the juice for the motor has to run through. Just having the direct power and ground available by the relay would bypass all that mess.
According to the schematic, the stock wires are 3mm², which is the equivalent of 12 AWG.
Some of the problem probably stems from the amount of switches and connectors the juice for the motor has to run through. Just having the direct power and ground available by the relay would bypass all that mess.
All that other crap all adds up to more voltage drop as well.
07-11-2004, 08:52 PM
#54
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Livingston, New Jersey
Posts: 534
I would think that 10 gauge wire is plenty, its easy to work with and crimp on connectors are available. One DPDT relay for each motor would clean things up if you could find em.
If im running the 2 10 gauge wires to the battery i would want to have a fuse or circuit breaker like stock, any body know what the motors draw? or what the stock breaker is rated for?
If im running the 2 10 gauge wires to the battery i would want to have a fuse or circuit breaker like stock, any body know what the motors draw? or what the stock breaker is rated for?
07-11-2004, 08:56 PM
#55
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Memphis, TN, USA
Posts: 1,122
Originally posted by Capn Pete
OK, I just want to get this straight
.....
.....you ran the original wires that come from the switch (up/down) to relays now, instead of directly to the motors? And the power/ground wires to the motors are now heavy gauge wire, instead of lighter gauge as they were originally
OK, I just want to get this straight
..........you ran the original wires that come from the switch (up/down) to relays now, instead of directly to the motors?
And the power/ground wires to the motors are now heavy gauge wire, instead of lighter gauge as they were originally
Hmmm .... time to contact Bluff City Electronics for a 12 VDC DPDT 30A relay and simplify things a little.
Thanks for working this out!
07-11-2004, 09:40 PM
#56
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Posts: 1,771
I simplified mine a while back. Battery to switch to windows. All with 12 gauge wire. Everything has been holding up fine. Best part of it is the windows go up and down any time, so I can drop the windows as soon as I sit down. The only bad thing is no auto-down feature on the driver's side anymore.
07-14-2004, 10:20 PM
#59
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Vermilion, Ohio USA
Posts: 264
OK the new pictures should be up (Thanx LWillmann) I have built two kits for freinds and will sell kits to install in your cars. I can say with 100% certainty that this once and for all fixes the damn window problem 
I had to PULL on the windows to get them to come up and the same setup works great now. I am putting together a setup with instructions to sell if anyone is interested just let me know I wanted to make a "Plug & Play" system but I can't find the connector that plugs directly into the harness that goes to the motor I can get motor harnesses but it'll drive the cost up about 20 dollars (otherwise you only have to cut two wires in each door) I will sell the kit for 50 Bucks including all Heatshink tubing to install it neatly Give me some feedback if anyone wants the system
PS if anyone hates the express down feature on the drivers side I can make a little harness that removes it
I had to PULL on the windows to get them to come up and the same setup works great now. I am putting together a setup with instructions to sell if anyone is interested just let me know I wanted to make a "Plug & Play" system but I can't find the connector that plugs directly into the harness that goes to the motor I can get motor harnesses but it'll drive the cost up about 20 dollars (otherwise you only have to cut two wires in each door) I will sell the kit for 50 Bucks including all Heatshink tubing to install it neatly Give me some feedback if anyone wants the systemPS if anyone hates the express down feature on the drivers side I can make a little harness that removes it
07-14-2004, 10:29 PM
#60
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Vermilion, Ohio USA
Posts: 264
By the way ALL and I mean ALL features of your window work as they always did express down, AND RAP! (retained Accessory Power) you ONLY CUT the two wires that go to the motor in EACH door! so there is a total of 2 Relays in each Door. I use #8 because of the long run from the battery + to the relay in the door If you buy My kit, I will include detailed instructions.