I finished this mod today, the passenger window works GREAT.


Drivers window, not so much. It still trips the circuit breaker and stops.

I used #8 wire(I know I know it is overkill, but I had a BUTTLOAD of it) I ran it in under the ECM and across under the dash. Split it under the passenger dash.

Can I bypass the thermal protector on the drivers side motor or just buy a new one?

I ran a #12 or 14 ground wire, could that be it?

David

 

Bypassing it will buy you time, but if your motor is going a little and then stopping, that means it's running hotter than it's supposed to. This is a sign that it's dying. It'll eventually die completely.

If you don't want to pay for a new motor right now, the bypass will do the trick for the time being. Just don't count on the bypass working forever. Your windows will get slower and slower and eventually they'll stop altogether.

 

Yea. Your DS motor is probably too far gone to save. Was there ANY improvement? Are you positive that you wired everything correctly on that side?

If you are, I would just pick up another motor and be done with the job - that way you wont worry about it for a long time to come. All indications are the motors will live a much longer life after this modification.

May first time I ran #8 also. Personally I would stick with at least 12 if not 10 for the ground also. But... if you are under the dash - you are only running a couple of feet max to the ground lug - so it probably isn't too critical.

 

It goes down a little better. All wired correctly. Everything works like it is supposed to.

Guess I will pop for a motor.


David

 

I just put my Chinese, e-Bay window motors in today. I also bought all of the stuff to do the relay mod but haven't done it (yet).

After the install, I made an interesting observation that I'm not sure anyone has mentioned. After doing the passenger side, I noticed it was still very slow. If you're hesitant about doing the relay mod, and you haven't done your motors, try this:

Take the plug from both window switches, clean the switch terminals well with a brass wire brush to get the crap off of them. They are copper and will tarnish and oxidize over time. In fact, it probably would help a great deal to plate (or tin) them with solder. Either cost or the whole lead-free movement is the reason they are bare in the first place when they really should be plated to protect against oxidation. I will try this later... it should be fairly easy to do.

Anyhow, get some dielectric grease from any auto parts store and coat each pin with it. Work the connector on and off a couple of times and see if it helps. Doing this made a huge difference on the new passenger motor. I also used the grease on the window motor plugs of both motors. The idea of the dielectric grease is to help slow down the oxidation and help keep the terminals/connectors cleaner, longer.

While I don't think the relay mod is a bad idea, I'm not convinced the problem is due to under-sized wiring which has been mentioned as a reason the window motors fail. It seems the problem stems more from crappy connections at the window motor and at the switches. The relay mod fixes this situation by running a lower current through the switches and using the relays to direct the high current to the window motors (duh). Thus the switches don't need such a strong connection anymore since the relays are doing all the work. But sooner or later, even the relays will need to be replaced.

Still though, keep in mind the connectors at the window motor could be much beefier than they are. It's a waste to use beefy wire when the connectors are the real bottleneck; especially if they're dirty and tarnished. This will only get worse over time. When I pulled my old motors out, I noticed the connectors were tarnished and brown. They also appeared to be brass (more susceptible to oxidation) where the chinese motor terminals were gray/silver; indicating they were plated to help protect them (probably with lead... lol). I thought that was interesting since I've read a few users who have done the relay mod with no change or improvement.

Bottom line is, if you're doing the relay mod, be sure to also make sure the window motor connectors are clean, tight, and you use the dielectric grease. If you're not doing the relay mod, check and clean the switches as well.

Sorry for the book...

 

I just want to make sure everyone knows that dielectric grease does not conduct electricity. It's an insulator.

If you're sure that you have metal-to-metal contact, dielectric grease will help make sure that water (and therefore corrosion) never reaches the point of contact. The metal contacts should push the grease out of the way. However, if you have a questionable connection in the first place, the dielectric grease might not get pushed out of the way, which will only make the problem worse.

Should be fine in this case... but a lot of people use it incorrectly and are therefore unhappy with the results, so I get all worked up when people mention it.

 

Very good point that I should have mentioned, my bad. Anyway, more of an update:

I mentioned before tinning the switch pins with solder... DON'T DO IT. I melted the switch tonight and will need to get a new one. I should have known better... but no biggie. However, I'm still of the belief that these lousy switch pins should be plated.

I still must stress that since the current w/o the relay mod is running through the swtiches, it's a must that the switch contacts are clean and free of oxidation.. What about dipping them in Tarn-X... just a thought.

Still kicking around the idea of doing the relay mod, though. But, again to make a note, those who have done the relay mod without any improvement, should check their connections at the window motor and, of course, the wiring to be sure it's correct. If the relay mod is done correctly, and the window motors are known to be in decent shape with clean connectors, it will work... it's that simple.

I measured the current of the passenger side with the door panel off with a clamp meter... about 4-1/2 to 5 amps up/down. My motors are brand new so I would suspect this to be the norm; and these readings would vary depending on the motors, the meter used, etc. Regardless, the stock 12 gauge wire will handle this with no problem.

One more point to ramble, it dawned on me during this exercise that we used to buy those amber colored fog lights with the tacky-*** green, lighted rocker switch, from the auto part stores back in the day and hang them in the grills of our cars (the older guys should know what I'm talking about). It seems within two months, that cool lighted rocker switch would burn out... despite it's 10 amp rating. Put a relay in between the switch and fog lamps... and the problem is gone. The power window problem is a similar situation; except it's not quite burning out the switches.

 

I think the theory as discussed is that resistance builds as the quality of the connections deteriorates. The wiring isn't the whole problem, or it would have been poor from the factory. I am under the belief that it is a contributing factor when the connections begin to age - especially considering the long run to the PS motor through two switches.

The pins on the switch plug are male and can be polished up without too much problem, but the female end and internal connections of the switch can be more of a problem, no? I have never attemped to disassemble the switch assembly to clean it up for fear of losing little parts that would disappear forever.

I do know I have had instant success with four windows (two cars) with the addition of relays. And if the relay(s) fail, it is faster and easier than pulling a window motor - they are mounted under my dash in a plug.

 

Yes... there would be more resistance as the quality of the connections deteroriate. Nice way to put it. And this is more the problem than the gauge of wire, the length of the runs, etc. as has been discussed many times.

I'm still convinced the switches are the biggest culprit as they would oxidize first since they are bare copper. Next would be the connections at the window motor; since they are rather chinsey IMO; and some are plated while others are not depending on what 'brand' of motor you get or when it was manufactured. Also up for debate would be the idea that ALL window motors, regardless of brand name, for these cars come/came out of the same factory in China. But that's another thread for another time.

As for the mating plugs to the switches, the connections (or sockets) appear to be plated, and therefore, protected much better than the switches. If you do decide to take your switch pods apart, there are only two little clips on each one that hold it in the door panel. If you've already done the relay mod, you can surely get these things out without losing any pieces.

When I do decide to do the relay mod, I'm going to use the existing wires and fusing as they are plenty good enough.

One more note (and I know this is getting long), my SUV (Ford), has a similar setup where the window motor currents are running through the switches and not relays as well. I've never had a problem with the 3 Ford SUV's I've owned and can only surmise that the quality of the connectors must be exceptionally better than the ones on our F-bodys. The buttons are nicer for sure. Now if only I could do a Ford to Camaro power window switch pod mod. lol

 

well i got around to doing this to my drivers side window. had already done the passenger one. now they both go up and down in about 4 or 5 seconds. one of the best user friendly mods i have done yet. anyone thinking about doing this, just do it. well worth the work. took less than 2 hours each door and would have gone quicker than that, but had to hunt down a few tools.

 

I just ordered the kit from Autotrix 30 min before I found this. Not sure how similar they are in design as I have not seen the Autotrix components yet.

I have a sneaking supsicion that I'm gonna need a couple window motors regardless.

jeff

 

I think their kit IS this. They give you all of the components in one shot - rather than shopping around.

Just some advise from experience - make sure to mount your relays under the dash - not in the door. My '96 had a failed relay from moisture intrusion after a couple of years. This time around I put them inside the car.

 

I read that in your original post in this thread and thought that to be a good idea myself. Not to mention it alleviates trying to find and drill for a mounting location inside the door. It makes it much easier to just run wires to the door.

 

oops, didn't realize I had posted that earlier - I think I have followed this thread since '04.

There really is no good place in the door. Its either a wet area, a tight area, or somewhere that it may interfere with moving parts.

 

Would it be to much to ask for a shopping list for this? Over 8 pages and missing diagrams and pics, I dont have an accurate assesment of what I need to get the job done.

Thanks