The 1997-2003 model sold quite well. I remember looking at getting one in 2002 and 2003 but did not because I knew a new car was coming. When I last looked at an 03, they had $3K in incentives..and this was right before the 04 came out. When the 2004 came out..it instantly had MASSIVE rebates on it within a year..like $4K plus. If you go on club GP a lot of the 1997-2003 owners hated the 2004 plus car. The G8 GXP was an "okay" car. I had one...and found it decent. The big problem was the GXP was even uglier than the normal car. Also, the tires were expensive..and the engine was unique and jammed in enough that modding was very, very hard.


As for the GTO..I really think if we had gotten the 2005 car in 2004..the GTO would not be talked about in the negtive light some people do. Slapping GTO on the car without a proper dual exit exhaust, and hood scoops turned a lot of people off..and created the bland sterotype the car carried. As far as marketing..if you search youtube for GTO commercials..they were fairly aggressive.

 

I think all this proves is that you can't please everyone. I liked the GTO better without the fake hood scoops, and I don't care whether the dual exhausts exit on the same side or opposite sides. To me, the fake scoops are just plain dumb, and the car was more attractive without them.

In much the same way, I consider the Commodore SS front fascia more attractive than G8. But I'm not going to start threads on the topic. It's personal preference.

Maybe what killed Pontiac was the fact that its fans were so picky. I doubt people on the Camry boards went nuts over the 2002 redesign (which I considered less attractive than the 1997) model, and if they did, sales didn't tank because of it.

In reality, the problem with Pontiac was that GM didn't have enough money to do a proper job on it. How does the old saying go? "If you can't do something right, don't do it at all" -- something along those lines.

 

Everyone has their opinion..however I think most people who would buy a GTO at the minimum would expect a proper split dual exhaust. The hood scoops are debatable..but I think they give the car a more agressive attitiude. Sales of the car did jump when the Aussie version of the car got the american hood scoops and dual exhaust.

 

I assume you meant the GP GXP, not the G8 ...

I agree about the previous-gen GP. I had a 1999 and loved the car. It had a nice, wide, low-slung, aggressive stance to it. The 2004 re-do just looked like a generic 4-door sedan, with wheels that didn't seem to fit the car. In reality the interior was no worse than the 1997, but neither was it any better for being a newer car.

Oh, and a pet peeve on the name dilution ... it used to be that the "GT" was the top dog in the lineup ... then they diluted it too much by using it on their mainstream models so they come up with GTP ... then that's no longer good enough so they make a new top dog badge called GXP. It'd be nice to see a little more consistency.

 

I guess I'm the only one who actually likes the looks of the 2004 Grand Prix and GTO.

 

My cousin Becky owned an '80 Trans Am Turbo 301, the intake ports were really small, choked. Blue with light/dark blue bird and a turbo bump in the drivers side hood.

I had a '67 Firebird 400 at the same time and we ran once, it wasn't even close, but it sounded cool!

Buick Olds Pontiac shared motors most of their life, a turbo 307ci Olds motor could've been a big step up.

They kept making the turbo hoods on the Formula's but lost the motor....

This pic is not hers, but looks the same, minus bra.

http://www.autotrader.ca/usedcarcana...C_TRANS_AM.jpg

 

The whole exhaust thing proved that GTO "enthusiasts" may not have deserved a car. The 2004 had dual exhaust. It even sounded better to a lot of people than the rigged up exhaust on the 05-06's.

 

Excellent point!

 

No they haven't. That all started around '76-'77.

 

Note..the "proper split dual exhaust" in the post...as in exhaust pipes on both sides. FWIW, the exhaust on the 04 is crap and necks down to 2.25" in places.

People dismiss this..but if GM released a new Camaro SS with what appeared to be a single exhaust people would be screaming murder. There are some things that are needed for a correct, muscular V8 look..and proper dual exhaust is one. Some might like sleepers, but the majority buys a performance car as a form of expression.

 

LOL... X2 on prefering the looks of the euro and australian versions of the G8 and GTO.


Also I hated the ram air crap Pontiac put out on any car except the trans am. I chuckle when I see G6 guys putting on ram air hoods.

 

No you're not. If the 2004 GP had been RWD, with the attendant changes in proportions, I would have bought one. The '97-'03? Not if there were another choice (Intrigue and Regal were both better looking to me).

I think a lot of Pontiac fans are picking out one car they don't like and using that as an example of why Pontiac failed. In the case of the Aztek, that car was subject to universal scorn. But in the case of the GP and Grand Am/G6, I just don't see it. Both of the mid '00s replacements generally got complimentary reviews in comparison to the previous models. But not with the competition. Which was also a problem with the previous models.

 

I like FOG alot........but I don't agree with FOG on many of his points and the dude has a good pulse on GM.

FOG.......the vehicle that killed Pontiac WAS the Aztek. Just sayin'

The vehicle that was going to save Pontiac was Solstice.....

 

I think this exhaust system looks like crap, especially when looking at the car from the rear.

 

This is so, so true...once again, Charlie and I agree

The last day I worked for the Pontiac dealer, I took out a brand new silver '06 GXP for one last hurrah. Basically, I hit my favorite demo road I had used for the prior 6 years, and absolutely let her rip. Probably a dumb idea, but as I said on here years ago, I "saw red"...

The harder you drove that car, the better it got. I have never been more impressed with the way a car drove when you consider the foundation engineers started with. At 9/10ths, that car was flat, stable, neutral, balanced and FAST powering out of a corner. That car truly used the sum of its parts (better brakes, Bilstein struts, unique tire sizes, LS4) to make for one friggen wild ride...

I left early that day, to come up here and meet my new crew. I took out a Charger R/T, not 3 hours after I left the GXP. I couldn't have been more dissappointed in the R/T. It didn't feel faster, handled far worse, etc...yet the Charger has sold far, far more units over time.

I won't get into a long verbal diatribe about my love for Pontiac. Its been well, well documented on here. In my mind, yes...Pontiac died with the '04 re-design of the GP, the bland G6, and the bland GTO. My wife loves her Comp G...and so do I. But, its not a visually stirring vehicle, and the interior design is plain odd to me. Why do we own it? In black, its a decent looking car...and while it doesn't make me "see red" like the GXP did, it still stirs the soul. I can fry the tires with the ol' 3.8, and the Comp G suspension adds give the car a stable feel...albeit it pushes more than a GXP does.

My favorite FWD car ever remains the '97-'03 Grand Prix. Even today, a clean one still turns my head. Every owner I talk to loves them. My mother ordered a black '98 GT sedan new, followed by a green '01 GT sedan my sister still owns. I had an '01 GT coupe as a DD...I still miss it. I only sold it because I have a demo. Something tells me that if I'd never started here, I'd still own it...with about 150-180k on it now.

Nothing GM makes today has stirred the soul of myself, or my GM-loyal parents, the way that design did. If I got another job today, I'd be hard pressed to buy a GM product, to be honest. A base LS Camaro doesn't have/can't get a sunroof. A turbo/M6 Regal will likely cost too much. Nothing else appeals to me. I'd probably end up with an M6 Fusion Sport, to be honest...and that's not a car that's ever been on my radar before. I'm not even really crazy about it. But, if I want domestic, a manual tranny, a mid-size, what options do I have? I can't even get a damned 2 door anymore!! I could live with no stick if I could get a coupe! GM used to have TONS of coupes!! An Altima or Accord Coupe actually fits what I'd want...but that'll happen over my dead body.

I wish Buick and Chevy well...they have big, big shoes to fill for the sea of current Pontiac owners. Pontiac owners will be ok though...they can take solace in the driver's seat of their new Mazda 3 or 6, Nissan Altima or Maxima...

Nissan and Mazda are what Pontiac could've been...