Well, ok, very similar engines, transmission etc. for most of my life
Point is, you could plug a 301 Pontiac intake port with your thumb. My 400 Firebird had me deep into Pontiac until they went to generic chevy motors.

 

That's very telling.

From one life long Pontiac owner and fan......you're not alone...GM has ALOT of making up to do for its 3rd best selling brand.

But I think we'll be happy in 4 years.

JUST SAYIN'

 

The GXP was an exception, IMO. But, like all other truly great GM cars, only about 37 people knew about it. The 97-03 GP was a better, more appealing car over all and it had an EXCELLENT marketing program.

IMO, GM's problem is 75% marketing and 25% product. heck, with the new products, I'd say it's 95% marketing. GM has some EXCELLENT vehicles, but they don't know how to effectively communicate that to people who need to know it.

I can see that and I would agree to an extent. But I still think the image conveyed by the cars was all wrong. Pontiac's image in the 90's might've been a bit over-the-top to some, but it was "Pontiac" nonetheless and that's what people knew and expected. But GM, in their typical whimsical nature, decided to try and change the image of the brand with horrible names and a $5 marketing budget and expected everything to work out okay. I guess some of those lessons with Oldsmobile weren't learned after all.

Certainly.

But how?

How could a low volume roadster on an inflexible platform that had a questionable profit margin save GM's second largest division?

Re: Aztek. It certainly wasn't a good thing. But my logic is that we, as enthusiasts, were able to see past the ridiculousness of the Aztek. And it was we the enthusiasts that 'new' niche Pontiac was supposed to appeal to.

I certainly feel your pain.

GM has a grand total of 3 cars that appeal to me right now. Camaro SS, Corvette and CTS-V. Out of that, I can afford one (Camaro SS) and it *STILL* would be a compromise. I love my Focus daily driver, and it's sad to say that I'd be hard pressed not to buy another Ford right now. The Aveo RS shows promise, as does the Regal GS. But I'm very worried that the RS will be toned down to the point that the appeal will be gone. And the Buick is a hard pill to swallow given the name (I know... I feel like such a horrible hypocrite saying that. But it does hold some merit)

 

Not to be a d***head, but no, not even similar.

The engines of Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and Buick share NOTHING in common. The may have shared a few displacement numbers but then they shared a few displacements with Chevy as well.
All of GM's divisions had their own engine programs and they all operated independently of the others.

The transmissions in all of GM's vehicles were the same except for the bell housings.


But you are right. If you're younger than 33-35 years of age, then you won't remember the divisions having their own exclusive engines.

And you're right about the 301 (and 265) ports. They suck!!

 

Okay - Personally I think Pontiac's downfall was brought about by 3 back to back terrible decisions on GM's part.

The First was dropping the Firebird/Trans Am from Pontiac's lineup in 2002. This was a car which help define the Pontiac Brand for 35 years.

The Second was selecting a very bland looking, low volume GTO to replace the Trans Am as Pontiac's Flagship.

The Third was using generic names like G5, G6, G8 to replace well-known Pontiac nameplates of Sunfire, Grand Am, & Grand Prix.

With lose of it's identifable nameplates - Pontiac basically lost it's brand Identity, and therefore was basically doomed. If GM hadn't done just one of these things to Pontiac it may have been a salvageable brand.

 

A low-volume, niche car was going to save Pontiac?

 

So if Pontiac hadn't introduced the GTO, it would have made a difference?
No way. Names like Sunfire and Grand Am had already been ruined. G5 and G6 may not have helped, but they didn't hurt. The first seeds of death for Pontiac were sewn in the late 70s, just as they were for Oldsmobile and Buick. Buick just happens to have gotten a reprieve, thanks to China.

The three cases you identify above were all symptoms, not causes.

 

Tell me why not, because I can tell you why it started to - and you haven't seen what was on "the horizon" thanks to the little architecture that could...Kappa and expanded to the "big brother" Zeta.

Or are you going to chump again and have nothing to back up your words?

 

Haha...you didn't actually just tell someone else they don't have anything to back up their words...did you? I don't know if that's more amusing or ironic.

Anyhow, I told you why not in the first post: Low-volume and niche. You can opine all you want about what could've been/what was going to be, that doesn't change was the sales figures were.

 

Pontiac is practically my religion. I remember we were out with some friends and one of them said that he couldn't believe I collected pontiacs- he couldn't think of a worse car to collect. All he knew were the Grand Am's and Bonevilles of the late 90's / early 90's.

I think Pontiac missed their opportunity when they did not capitolize on their history. Look at Dodge- sure they are not thriving but with the Challenger and Charger in retro paint that "looks" fast as hell it is more pontiac than anything Pontiac has made in the past 8 years.

I think Niche would have worked it is was Solstice, 2DR G8 and 4 dr G8.... maybe a pontiac cobalt SS

When we were in the market for a new car we looked at the G8 and to get one in a bright color (orange) you were looking at Sticker +. You could get a Charger Daytona for less money with more options and it looked more aggressive.

I still love pontiac- I am restoring a 25th anniv T/A right now. But no matter how many vanilla GM e-mails they send I will not buy another new GM product. As has been said before- there is nothing that excites me. I honestly think we bought our '04 GTO (which is a fantastic car) because it said GTO on it and it was the only opportunity that I would ever have to buy a new GTO.

If the '04 GTO had said regal on it I never would have considered it.

GM you will lose the pontiac faithful- quit sending stupid e-mails offering me $2000 off something I do not want

 

If not for the 300/Charger/Challenger, Chrysler might make only trucks/suvs.

 

Never liked pontiac, seemed like a Rednecks performance car "brand" to me and didn't even really have a halo "performance" car that could compete with the Corvette. Chevrolet was more of a performance division really.

Good riddens.

 

Around the time Bonneville, Grand Prix, Grand Am were let go, GTO whiffed, and Lutz labeled them damaged. Essentially, 2004?

 

If you don't mind my asking, how old are you?

 

You're kidding right?