formula79

I know one singular instance did not sink Pontiac..however like there is a point you know things are not right. Now don't say they "jumped the shark" when they started making FWD cars..because they were still a very viable brand even in 2004-05ish.

For me if..I had to pick a moment..it would be when they gave the 200 new G6's away on Oprah. Here we had GM's excitement division giving away their brand new bread and butter sedan to 200 moms on a talk show. How does that happen? I normally would have bought the Pontiac version of anything..but the second I saw that I knew the G6 was not the car for me. Malibu and I have no issue at all..but a Pontiac? Even if the singular Oprah even was not what spelled the end for the Pontiac..the release of the woeful G6 likely was.

Now I know that I will hear "Oh Pontiac sold to more women than men" so Oprah makes sense..but a talk show is still the wrong place. The old Grand Am sold well because to someone who had no clue, it looked like it could blow the wheels off a Mustang. The G6 was a bland jelly bean that Oprah gives away.

Josh452

ckt101

Pontiac was dead as soon as it lost it's own identity. It became a division of cars rebadged from other divisions, and so it became redundant. They tried to give it a performance identity, but ugly boy-racer cladding doesn't a performance car make. Just like with Oldsmobile and Saturn, they decided to actually make great product when it was too late.

Z284ever

This is from Jim Wangers:




Now it is time to pull back the curtain and name names! Certainly some may be offended, but with the looming loss of such a magnificent world-class institution like Pontiac, blame needs to be assessed—and there is a lot to go around.

First of all, don't think that Pontiac's demise is a result of its most recent failures. It is not what just happened lately, it is a long standing list of failures, of missed opportunities, of lack of respect for the image, all happening since that famous door closed on DeLorean.

Thankfully there were a few guys who did "get it", like Bill Collins, John Schinella, Steve Malone and Ben Harrison. It was Collins, as an Assistant Chief Engineer during the Jim McDonald era who kept alive what little bit of excitement was left. Schinella, the stylist, preserved the Trans Am image with designs like the "Screaming Chicken" hood decal; Malone, who as Chief Engineer, saved the SD 455 and the T/A 6.6 engine programs. Harrison, a sometimes overlooked market planner, influenced then General Manager Alex Mair to respect the mass sales appeal of the Grand Prix as well as approving the "Smokey and the Bandit" and the Can Am programs. Unfortunately, they were out-gunned by the "GM Soldiers and bean counters".

So, who didn't "get it"—leading Pontiac into today's tragic dilemma? My list of "bad guys" starts with Jim McDonald. As General Manager, McDonald, who replaced John DeLorean, believed the best way to sell a Pontiac was to cut costs, cut the prices, and change names, thus the T-37, for example. He had a complete disregard for the image. Pontiac was not and never will compete as a de-contented Chevrolet.

Martin Caserio, the next General Manager was really a true "GM soldier" trying desperately to fit in. Afraid of any GM criticism for too much emphasis on performance, he personally held up the release of the SD 455 engine program, already approved by engineering for the 1973 GTO, Firebird and yes, even for a special Grand Prix model. Finally, under pressure in late '73 he allowed its release, but only for the Firebird T/A, and Formula models.

Bob Stempel, yet another new General Manager, completely misread the now "sophisticated" performance image of the Grand Prix, arrogantly killing the SJ model compromising the car's personality, which had for so long dominated the luxury sport segment. "Grand Prix is a luxury car and it doesn't need that sporty performance", he would say.

Bill Hoglund professed to be an enthusiast, yet as General Manager he failed to direct his engineering team to develop a distinguishable "Pontiac only" version of the proposed new corporate powerplants scheduled for the all-new 1982 Firebird. He "matter of factly" approved the highly imaged Pontiac Trans Am to be powered with the same engine that was now available in Chevy's "me-too" Camaro Z28. Look at the highly compromised Fiero. Blaming costs, he robbed the Fiero's sophisticated development process by farming it out, allowing "cheaper" Chevrolet suspension parts (Chevette) to be used. He never understood Fiero's importance to the Pontiac image. Hoglund stood by for years allowing the continued deterioration of what made Pontiac a Pontiac.

Mike Losh, yet another "GM Soldier" who didn't get it! Under the guise of "budget control" he set out to further cheapen the car. As an example, look at the 6000STE another Pontiac way ahead of its time, which he inherited. Its outstanding styling and handling was seriously compromised with an anemic 2.8L V6 engine. Here was a really sophisticated European Sports Sedan with NO power! As "Boss" at Pontiac he sat by complacently as both Olds and Buick were allowed to install the much more satisfying 3.8L V6 in their mid-sized sedans. If John DeLorean were facing that same kind of issue when he was running Pontiac, you can bet he would have been pounding on desks and stomping his heels on GM's 14th floor to win approval for Pontiac to install that bigger V-6 in the STE, making an already successful car even more successful.

Roy Roberts, inherited Pontiac when GM announced the merger of Pontiac and GMC truck. Roberts never really "got" Pontiac, at a time when the entire marketplace was enjoying a modern performance evolution. While the computer controlled, supercharged Grand Prix GTP was attracting an entirely new and much younger buyer, Roberts and his marketing team completely missed it, never winning any serious respect for the car.

Lynn Myers, a Pontiac "lifer" who by never taking a risk, woke up one morning to learn she had been appointed Marketing General Manager. She continued to miss the evolution of the "computer tuners", who had by now become the next generation of real Pontiac enthusiasts. They had learned how to combine a laptop and a few "bolt-on parts" to really make the GTP fly! To this generation—in image—the GTP was indeed the closest thing to come out of Pontiac since the first GTO. And on the subject of the new GTO, Myers and her team completely missed the magnificent heritage opportunity. She missed a market full of real Pontiac "lovers" who were pleading for a new rear-drive performance coupe. She had no idea what it meant to be called a "GTO." In fact, she told me once that the new '04 GTO was never to be called a "M-Car". When I asked what is an "M-Car?" she replied, "A musclecar, and we're not going to ever drag race it. We're going to use it in Sports Car Road Racing." I said "Oh my God" and walked away shaking my head.

Myers failures were even more dramatically demonstrated when she introduced her new performance marketing guru Bob Kraut, who had been recruited straight from Madison Avenue, and almost seemed proud that he knew nothing about cars or previous Pontiac imaging. As product manager for the Grand Prix line and the new GTO, Kraut would literally embarrass himself, as knowledgeable automotive press and real car-enthusiasts knew more about the subject than he could ever learn. Directing the "No M-Car" concept, Kraut visited event after event only to anger and confuse the "real" Pontiac family who so wanted to like the new GTO. As a consumer product marketer, he never learned what the letters GTO meant—let alone understand its image. Worse yet, he really didn't even want to learn what made Pontiac a Pontiac.

Bob Kraut was a product of the Corporate "GM Villain" philosophy. Board Member John Smale, sometimes known as the "Toothpaste King" because of his previous Proctor and Gamble experience decimated the entire GM marketing department by exclaiming that, "You guys are all wrong, people don't care which end drives the car, they only want to know how good they're going to look and feel in it." With his new hand-picked marketing czar Ron Zarella, fresh from the Eyeglass Business, they started on a dedicated effort to hire outsiders who proudly knew nothing about the automobile business. Needless to say, this noble experiment was a disastrous failure—one more time proving the "Show Me A Man" theory.

Pontiac is gone and now General Motors has filed for bankruptcy. Pontiac was lost because management lost sight of what made a Pontiac a Pontiac—its image. Bankruptcy protection and the bailout by the U.S. government will not relieve GM of the need to continue to develop and market saleable cars. Right now, “The dogs don’t like the dog food.” GM’s image has come to symbolize inferior workmanship, uninspired design and second-tier technology; this leading to a declining market share and now bankruptcy.

What was true back when GM held more that 50% of the U.S. market is even more true today, “It is not what you are, but what they think you are.” GM’s biggest challenge moving forward is its image. They must once again establish the image of an innovative industry leader; a car for every buyer and every pocket book. They can do this through inventive efforts like the Chevrolet Volt. However, most importantly, GM must focus its marketing efforts to reinvent a new kind of “Chevy”…a new kind of “Buick”…a new “Caddie” …and even a new “Jimmy”. Hell, I don’t drive, I don't polish and I don’t love a “GM”.

roccopewterss

^^^^^

That's a fantastic read. It's really pathetic but a fantastic read none the less. It is just hard for me to imagine that such a huge company with so much history employed people (in charge) that literally never embraced a brand image that seemed so clearly defined. Really really sad.

R.I.P Pontiac

teal98

Turbo Trans Am

Body cladding as their differentiator

By 2000, GM had three traditional brands that were all but dead on the West Coast (Buick, Olds, Pontiac), and two that were in grave danger (Chevy cars, Cadillac).

In 2002, with the CTS, the resuscitation of Cadillac began.

Recovery for Chevy began later, with the first real evidence being the current Malibu.

Chevy and GMC trucks have been fine all along.

Buick's recovery began with the LaCrosse.

GM just didn't have the money to fix Pontiac, Saab, and Saturn. Saab has not been healthy since before GM bought it, and Saturn's biggest success was its sales model, which unfortunately was not reflected in profit.

Z28x

I think it was with 2 cars. The 2004 Grand Prix and the 2005 G6. The 1997-03 Grand Prix was a great looking popular car, then in 2004 they weak upgrade basically making the 03 car but with a uglier interior and exterior. They also dropped the coupe which was a huge mistake. Changing the name from Grand Prix to G8 in 2008 was the final nail in the coffin. It is a shame because the Grand Prix had a huge fan base in the early 2000's.

Grand Am was the other car they messed up. The Grand Am brand was well know and liked. Instead of continuing what worked they changed the name and dropped 4cyl. option. They also didn't let you get a manual on the GT. From day one this brand was designed to fail with its target audience.

Some will say GM didn't listen to Pontiac customers, I disagree. I think they listened to them and then told them to go "F" them selves.

One thing I will give them credit for is keeping RWD and V8's after the death of the Firebird.

Aaron91RS

I'll never believe pontiac was in any worse shape then buick before they killed it off.
I think it was just another bad decision from GM.

Z28x

I made a thread about 1 year about what I thought Pontiac needed https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...hlight=pontiac

WERM

I wonder how much the name changes were a factor.

Oldsmobile killed nameplates like "Cutlass" and replaced them with names like "Achieva"....and sales dropped, even with great new products.

Pontiac killed names like "Bonneville", "Grand Prix", and "Firebird" and replaced them with names like "G6"...and sales dropped...but in this case not really any great new products.

These days there are so many models out there and so much advertising, it seems all but impossible for a new nameplate to gain traction. Throwing away recognizable ones has just got to be a dumb idea.

90 Z28SS

This brand was tarnished the minute they started making small economy cars like the fwd LeMans and minivans and suvs . From that point on it was just hit or miss sucesses ( 97-03 GP , firebirds and obvious current RWD cars ) . Im not talking about sales sucess , thet sold a metric ton of Grand Ams , but people dont exactly aspire to own them like they would a 97-03 GP GT or GTP . The really f'ed up when they did not correctly adapt the drastically changing market and felt they must appeal the Pontiac brand to everyone in the current market . Therefore your left with 2 awesome cars ( G8 and solstice ) that suffer because Pontiac is to busy trying to appeal to everyone with the rest of the brand of generic clones .

onebadponcho

Pontiac - (marketing + image + identity) = epic fail

Way to go GM!

Silverado C-10

It's over and done with, why are we still talking about this... again... ???

Sales of the existing GM brands have all been up the past few months. Pontiac is dead and gone and no longer relevant or needed.

Mustang Killer57

2000 Bonneville redesign got and performed worse than the previous style.
Putting that DOHC v8 in the later bonnevilles, another dumb move. It didnt work for Olds..hey lets kill Pontiac with it too!
2002 Death of the firebird...nail in pontiac coffin.
2004 New Grand Prix was absolutely ugly. Whoever allowed that to replace the 97-03 was out of their mind.
Killing the 2 door GP and the GP's performance image was stupid!

allowing Chevy to use the 3800 Series 2. This engine had always been exclusive to Buick/Pontiac. Giving it to Chevy allowed 3800 faithful to cross shop into the volume brand.

Giving Chevy the 3800 Supercharged, gave away any added performace Pontiac/Buick held over Chevy.

Using the LS4 in Chevys.

Replacing a "fast looking" Grand Am with a "Bland looking" G6. ---Once again, who made these decisions at GM? Whoever it was should have been fired along time ago.

Allowing vehicles like the GTO to be sold anywhere north of 30k when it would have been a hugely sought after cant get enough of them at $28k!

Josh452

2 Cars and not one was the Aztek............C'mon guys as a tried, tested and true Pontiac owner the Aztek was the ultimate downfall of the brand. Did you forget about what should have been the abortion of the Pontiac brand? I said it......abortion....it was the worst vehicle *EVER* produced for a brand.

From that day forward it was never the same and was a brand that people had no faith in because of the Aztek. The Solstice made waves but it was too late.

I liked the wide trac of the Grand Prix because it worked if you were going to go FWD
The G6......Lutz told me 2 years after it came out that it needed a new interior....didn't happen.
Torrent was "ok" and the GXP made it better but dealers were always looking for something 'else' to compete with the Equinox.

Dealers fighting other dealers......Nice.

So much more can be said, and should be said but I'll save it for another day.