As is everyone whose sum total of automotive knowledge comes from parroting marketing hype from the companies they bought from.

It's called RATIONALIZATION.

 

This is what really frosts my a%$! I work with a woman who had a Corolla that started burning huge amounts of oil by 100k miles. The engine was shot. So what does she do? Goes and buys another one. She is another mindless Toyota buyer who refuses to look at anything else.

 

I think you confused what I was saying, jimbo said "Actually the Toyota dealership claims their entry-level Echo is built with the same quality as their flagship Avalon." So I was saying that, that must be why he bought the corolla, because the dealer told him it was the same as an avalon. But I have been out of California, the military will help you with that. And I have seen the toyota cavalier first hand in Japan. Along with all the other junk they sell over there. It's not the same auto industry over there. People don't want the same thing out of a car as they do over here. People aren't as materialistic, and it doesn't matter what your car looks like to anyone. A lawyer can roll up to work in a beat up 83 trueno, get out in a nice suit and never have anyone judge him on the car he drives. It's just normal over there. Whereas here, some people think they need to drive a $45,000 car to feel successful.

 

Sorry about jumping down your throat, didn't realize you were commenting on Jim's comments.

I think at the current pace that Toyota is at, people will not be thinking at Toyota means quality by the beginning of the next decade. They are really starting to turn out some crappy stuff and charging more for it! I have noticed, this week, that there are Camarys all over the place but havn't seen much outside of those cars. Does anyone know what %, of total Toyota(brand) sales, are accounted for by the Camary?

 

You mean the Chevrolet Cavalier that's rebadged as a Toyota Cavalier?

 

Maybe she never changed her oil?

As for people saying Toyota owners are stupid sheep, I'd say the majority of them buy their Toyota after having problems with junk cars.
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jsconte/index.html
" What I Want To Tell You about my 1999 Chrysler Intrepid



It's Gone!!!!!
To Hell I hope.
I bought a Camry and have never been happier.
IF you buy a Chrysler Good Luck... "

Hmm, is that guy just another idiot? He experienced problems with his Chrysler, so he bought a Toyota and now experiences no problems! What a DUMB SHEEP, right?

Now I am aware that Toyotas are made by Humans, and when you got millions running around, people are going to have problems here and there.
However, they are a lot better than GM's cars generally.
You have to admit Toyota is doing rather successful while GM seems like it's trying to commit suicide, buying out Daewoo, getting low build quality reviews in the past, low customer satisfaction and a reputation for ****-poor resale value.
Remember not EVERYBODY in the world is a performance car enthusiast.
I'm a student... if I need to sell my car I don't want it to be worth jack **** in 2 years. That's why I didn't even set foot in a GM lot. In 2 years I can sell my car to buy 7 Cavaliers, one for each day of the week!

i still remember hating Toyota, and hating Motor Trend for praising them. When my cousin had his 99 Camry, I got in and felt around to see what the fuss was about. As much as I hated Toyotas, I noticed I could NOT get anything to move around.
Then, sitting on the side of the road, waiting for the tow truck while my coolant spewed everywhere, I knew I was going to fix my Volkwagen, sell the **** out of it then walk into Toyota and buy one of their cars by word of mouth.
But that week I had to call the tow truck 5 times! My mind was made up.
And I haven't looked back since. Hell I could even sell my XRS right now for maybe 600 less than what I paid! I've made more than that in payments so far. I would've made money on it! haha

 

may i ask why didn't you buy something say three years old and get the manufactures extended warrenty? you might have got something nicer like a cadillac/lincoln etc.

 

Because last time my family dealt with GM over an extended warranty, it was the worst experience ever. They didn't wanna fix ****!! My dad wanted to drive his car through the showroom floor and leave it there.
And another thing is gas prices, and then there's resale value. Cadillacs drop like ROCKS!

 

sorry i wasn't very clear but i meant any manufacture even toyota. what i'm thinking you could have got a IS300 for the same price as your XRS something like that

 

If you believe that, you have been secretly brainwashed during your visit to the Toyota dealership. Please seek help immediately.

When exactly was that time that you stopped hating toyota? Did you notice any pulsing lights aimed right into your eyes, possibly from the direction of the dealership?

 

The IS300 was still expensive, and I don't think it's worth it. For a Lexus, cloth seats, yellow paint? No thanks! Too ricey looking and apparently not all that potent. I wanted to get a 32 valve Northstar V8, Seville STS, black with chrome wheels!
But I think an 18 year old kid with a Cadillac making 12 an hour would send me to the poorhouse.
I wouldn't be able to court all the tang that the Caddy would bring, at least girls see Corolla and keep walking, so it keeps me financially stable!

 

I was tossing in a playful comment since you were being mr testosterone with your ***** waving about your bike. Sounds like you're insistent on it, so I'm out.

As for arguing for the Cavalier, how about this. Why not show me some reputable sources showing the Cavalier is this great tank of a car that's trouble free? It has a reputation for being the car that people buy because it's the among the cheapest new cars around, which was why the Cobalt was welcomed with open arms when it came out. Please show me these big studies I'm missing that show Cavalier to be the end all be all of reliability.

Regardless, it looks like the Scion brand is selling just as many cars as they want to.

 

While I don't think the Cavalier was the best built car in the history of automobiles.... I do have to give it some credit.

One of my best friends owned both a 98 and a 99 Cavalier coupe... he is a sales rep for a wood mouldng company... travels to retail stores to take care of their accounts, so he drives constantly.

He traded the purple 98 in on an 02 Grand Am GT for his wife... it had 210,000 miles on it. It was starting to get tired... but.... it had 210,000 miles on it... so I think that is understandable.

He still drives the blue 99 everyday... it now has 190,000+ miles on it. This cavalier was also rear ended with me, him, and 2 other friends on the NY turnpike on the way back from a trip to Casino Niagara... we got nailed by a semi. No one had any major injuries... in fact, I smacked the back of my head on the rear window (I was in the back) and that was the worst of it.

We DROVE the car home...smashed rear , tied up trunk and all... to Ohio. That happened at about 60,000 miles.... it got fixed, and only at an additional 130,000+ miles later... it's still going.

FWIW... these cars got bare bones maintenance... I'm talking they are lucky to get an oil change every 10k... my friend is NOT a car guy... he refers to his Cavalier's enhine as a "V4"

 

 

While your link only provided me with the Index, I did a search for Scion TC.
It gets five stars in every catigory excluding mechanical quality, in which it recieves 2 stars. It seems that JD power is extremely hard on that field, because when you take a 16-thousand-dollar Scion TC, the results are as follows..

Mechanical Quality: 2/5
Feature and Accesory Quality: 5/5
Body and Interior Quality: 5/5
Overall Quality: 5/5

I don't have a clue in the world what the 2 out of 5 is, but consider a Porsche 911 only gets 4 out of 5 in their rating system. Then for fun, I researched a 2005 Cadillac STS, and the results are as follows:

Mechanical Quality: 3/5
Feature and Accesory Quality: 3/5
Body and Interior Quality: 2/5
Overall Quality: 2/5

Which means a 16-thousand-dollar Scion gets a 5 out of 5 for overall quality, but a 40,000+ Cadillac gets a 2?

Even the 2005 Corvette....

Mechanical Quality: 3/5
Feature and Accesory Quality: 4/5
Body and Interior Quality: 2/5
Overall Quality: 3/5