Whoah! I must have missed that first time around.

How did it add to it?

 

Not correct. The cheapest Camaro V8 in the line up from 1996 to 2002 was the B4C Special Service Coupe.

I don't think you meant 1985-1997, but otherwise, I'll concede the point. In my opinion, from 1973 to around 1990 were the dark ages for GM. There were some exeptions, but not many.

I concur, it's open to debate, however, from 1967- 1969 the Z-28s were real race cars. They won real road races. There were some great SSs then, but, like now (ahem, the new Silverado SS, the Monte Carlo/Impala SS) 90% of them were marketing ploys. Most of those non Camaro SSs were nothing special, and the "special" ones with large displacement (mostly truck engines) had terrible suspensions. Maybe good for the 1/4 mile with mods, but not much fun to drive.

IMHO (with, what, 4 posts? I know, not worth much), there were some great classic SSs, but all the 1st generation Z-28s were true race cars. They kicked the stuffing out of every other production car in SCAA racing until the factory stopped sponsoring them in 1970. It's an apples vs. oranges comparision, but those were damn fine apples.

So, if GM followed it's roots with the Camaro, they would produce a road race Camaro (something like a 1998/9 1LE Z-28) that would accelerate like a stripped ape and handle like a slot car, and an SS with a larger displacment engine, and a suspension set up for drag racing. But that's not going to happen because of CAFE, and the large number of drivers that wrap these cars around poles and trees because of less than predictible handling and inexperienced drivers.

 

Welcome. It's not how often you post, but what you say when you post.

....and I agree.

 

DXed, I'm still waiting for you to respond to Z284evers' posts since I agree and would just say the same thing over again. But, if you think the IROCs' full name isn't IROC-Z28 you might be a little slow. What DO you think the Z is for in IROC-Z?! Many people call Z28's Z's, it's faster to say it. Putting an IROC-Z28 sticker above a Z28 emblem would have been a little much and how many times can you have it on the car, so its common name is IROC-Z. It's idiotic to even argue this. I guess you better call up Chevrolet and tell them that they were wrong in their brochures, advertisments, and commercials that clearly stated IROC-Z28 over and over again. As he said, since Z28's were used for the races, the IROC-Z28 was made to be the Ultimate Z28. I seriously suggest that you click ALL these links and READ, you asked for it LOL:

http://www.iroc-z.com/1985pages/1985...1985broch6.htm
http://www.iroc-z.com/1985pages/1985...85salesad4.htm
http://www.iroc-z.com/1986pages/1986...1986broch3.htm
http://www.iroc-z.com/1987pages/1987...1987broch5.htm
http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/br...similarity.jpg
http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/mo...s/3rdcomm.mpeg 2nd part is cool.
Nah, they didn't want to keep the Z28 name going when the regular Z28 was gone alright: (It was a Z28 anyway, that's what the Z is there for!!)
89 IROC-Z: http://www.thirdgen.org/rides/index....=ACFwQJCEj.jpg
RPO: http://www.iroc-z.com/1989pages/1989...indsticker.htm

 

It took the existing Z28... and added to it... adding better equipment... just like IROC-Z did .

 

But a single dash board emblem does??!?!?!?

 

Good point, but those were not available to "the general public" ... os that's kind of nit picky



Yes, a typo... should have been 1985-1987...

 

OK, All your stuff supports 85-87, which I never said there was no Z28 those years. IROC-Z, just like SS, was an add on package for Z28 for those years.

Now, you show me an offical Chevrolet brochure from 1988 to 1990 where it says it is the Ultimate Z28! I bet you cannot find one. Why? Because there was no Z28 from 1988-1990. Dash plaque or no dash plaque, your 3rd Gen heirarchy killed off the Z28 for 3 model years, or maybe I should more properly say "it reduced it back to just an option code".

Also, show me an official piece of documentation from Chevrolet where they call the IROC-Z the "IROC-Z28" They do not. Therefore "IROC-Z" is the "full-name". You can't simply make up stuff and say it is authentic.

Show me a 1988-1990 IROC-Z window sticker that says "Z28" anywhere on it besides an option code.... becuase I can show you any 4th Gen SS sticker that clearly states that it is a Z28 model with the SS Performance and Appearance package.

This whole thing is so ridiculous. I have no problem whatsoever with IROC-Z or the 3rd Gen itself. But the constant non-factual SS BS has got to stop.

 

Also... a little history lesson for when IZ28 keeps using "Corvette never used SS, so neither should Camaro":


"According to Chevrolet lore, legendary Corvette engineer Zora Arkus-Duntov coined the name “Super Sport” in response to someone calling his 1957 Corvette race car a mere “sports car.” No, corrected Arkus-Duntov, it’s a super sports car.

Thus was born the Corvette SS, the granddaddy of them all, and the namesake for every SS model to this day, from the first production SS, the 1961 Impala Super Sport, to today’s 2004 Impala SS and the SSR. "

I looked for this story last week, but couldn't find it, but it showed up on Motor Trend.com today... very timely!

It wasn;t a production car, but it's where the roots of SS are.

 

I know that they started out as Z/28's......you know that they started out as Z/28's, but......

You can't tell me though, that the 4th gen SS enhanced the Z/28's image.

Come on Darth...this conversation is going in circles.

 

I didn't mean it enhanced the Z28 name's image... I meant it enhanced the car itself.

SS pushed Z28 to the mid-level V8 Camaro.

IROC-Z did the same exact things.

 

As someone who was more than a toddler at the time of the introduction of the IROC, and as someone who bought a NEW convertible in 1988, let me put in a few words:

1. NOBODY who bought an IROC would allow it to be called a mere "Z28." They were separate and distinct in the public's mind--and the Z28 was clearly BELOW the IROC.

2. The IROC was NOT thought of as a "super Z28." It was its own model.

3. When a friend went to sell his IROC convertible recently, the buyer bitched that it was "only" a Z28, because he had Z28 badges on it rather than IROC (he preferred the lettering). The buyer clearly didn't think that the IROC and Z28 were the same model.

What does it have to do with this rather asinine discussion?

Point 1: The Z28 has been midrange for a LONG time now.
Point 2: The sixties are LONG behind us.
Point 3: If you reverse the Z28 and SS, you'll **** off a lot of current customers.
Point 4: Coming up with a new name for the top model that is not IROC, not SS, not Z28, not Z/28 is probably the best option.

And for those of you who think the base car is gonna be 25k, I say, keep dreaming--if that is the case, you will not have your beloved 5th gen for more than a few years. It's called competition. Imagine that!

 

I was in college at the time and having been a Camarofile since 1976 I was up on all the models, even though I couldn't afford the insurance on one. (Heck in 1988, I was driving a 68 Rally Sport anyway. ) The funny thing is, at the time I always thought of the IROC-Z as a "riced-out" Z/28. Sure the term "ricer" had yet to be coined, however back then we called flashy cars with wings and ground effects "disco".

Inspite of performance numbers and MSPRs, I'll always see "IROC-Z" and the modern "SS" as being beneath Z/28. Nothing anyone says or does will ever change that.

 

That's funny, because I always saw the Z28 as the riced-out IROC--after all, it was the Z28 that had the big ugly stripes and two-tone paint and such. The IROCs had simple stripes and a stripe delete option (which I happily took advantage of).

But, fact is, most people wanted the "top dog," the IROC--NOT the Z28.

 

Well..whatever. The whole Z/28/Iroc-Z......and Z/28/SS thing spun completely out of control....and ended up hurting the Z/28's image.

I know what a Z/28 is.
Alot of people know what a Z/28 is.
Alot of people who know what a Z/28 is...would like to buy what they percieve a Z/28 should be.

If GM plans on selling 80-100K 5th gens per year....my advice to them is to give us what we want.


End of story!