That's my same thought process as well. It is EXPECTED that Camaro sell more than Firebird due to the enormous base of Chevy dealers compared to Pontiac dealers. The disparity in sales between Camaro and Firebird doesn't seem so large when taken in this context.

 

How about we put one car in BOTH dealerships? We can call it the Firmaro!

I'll take my peace prize....

 

you're missing the point. you're trying to argue that the number of dealers somehow predetermines the number of new car sales. but number of dealers to sales ratio is completely irrelevent in this arguement. for one, it doesn't account for the size/volume of each individual franchise. for example, one larger franchise can take the place of 3 smaller ones and probably do just as well SELLING cars (servicing is a different story).

by your reasoning, Chevrolet should be selling 2x as many cars as Pontiac, Pontiac should be selling 2x as many cars as Toyota, and slightly less cars than Buick. lets look at the numbers for 2003.

Brand - Dealers - Sales volume
Chevrolet - ~4300 - ~2.7 MILLION
Pontiac - ~2800 - ~500 THOUSAND
Toyota - ~1200 - ~2 MILLION
Buick - ~3000 - ~340 THOUSAND

So you see any pattern there? I don't. if Chevy sales volume was proportional to it's dealer difference to Buick and Pontiac it would be selling no more than 1 million cars. Toyota shouldn't even be able to sell half the cars of Buick or Pontiac, but it outsells both of them combined more than 2:1. also, even though I don't believe it means anything whatsoever, if you notice that last production year camaro/firebird sales ratio is roughly proportional to Chevy/Pontiac dealers. meaning that year, Chevy and Pontiac sold the same number of Camaros and Firebirds per dealer. in previous years when Camaro had a wider margin, you could argue that Chevrolet sold more Camaros per dealer than Firebird. you can look at this as another counterpoint to your argument, but I won't.

Here is my personal view, CARS sell cars, not dealers. a desirable vehicle at the right price will always find an owner.

 

Gotta agree with that.

 

No, I’m saying that camaro sales stunk just as bad too. This was kind of in response to pace’s earlier comment on Pontiac not being able to give firebirds away. I got the feeling that a lot here are/were under the impression that Camaro faired any better sales wise. Just to put things in prospective, the camaro barely outsold a $42-50k 2 seater vette sitting in the same showroom and dealer-lots. Doesn’t look like they’re flying off dealer lots to me. Another thing, it seems as if some here are using the firebirds lousy sales in pointing out that a business case for it would be somewhat unfounded, while turning the cheek to the camaro and GTO’s equally sad sales record. Kind of found that ironic.

Of course number of dealers alone doesn’t predetermine sales, but it is NO secret that Chevy (GM’s largest division) is also GM’s volume leader, and has always been. It is also no secret that the Chevy version almost always outsells its other GM counterpart/twin. There’s more showroom traffic, and that much more people that are exposed to Camaro (whether they are in the market for it or not). Another thing, repeat customers. I bought a mustang, which was followed by a new F-150, and soon to join that will be a slightly used Explorer or Expedition. Nothing against the Mountaineer, but when I thought mid-sized SUV, I automatically thought Ford Explorer, and not Mercury mountaineer. Brand, dealer, etc…loyalty does exist, and that may play a role as well (especially when both vehicles in question are so close). In the end, there’s a reason why volume leaders are volume leaders.

True on cars selling cars, but no denying the role higher/better accessibility and exposure plays. Wasn’t one of the reasons cited for the f-bods poor sales lack of marketing?

 

another thing is a fully loaded trans am ws6 cost around $34,000-37,000
while a fully loaded camaro ss is about $26,000-31,000
more poeple can afford a camaro rather then a t/a
i can't remeber how many times i've been asked why didn't you just get camaro and save $8,000
i find it funny how poeple sit and say firebirds are junk and you couldn't give one away! when all that is different is the body and more options so if there junk then a camaro is junk. and you can't compare pontiac to toyota!
toyota and honda have some of the most loyal buyers in the world when they need a new car they don't even look around they just go straight to the nearest toyota dealership.

 

Thank you for the kind words.

My hope is that Firebird comes back also. In my heart, I think the Firebird COULD co-exist with Camaro, it just needs to be done right.

It can't be a Pontiac clone of a Chevrolet car, but at the same time it can't hold Chevrolet back by driving the business case the wrong way.

The horrible thing that happened to Firebird happened in 1982 when you literally couldn't tell the two cars apart from 100 feet. The cars with the Screaming Chickens on the hood WERE distinctive. They didn't scream:

"Rebadged Camaro"

The key to bringing Firebird back will be GTO. If GTO is a stunning success, Firebird doesn't have much of a chance for a while. If not, then a Zeta-based Firebird that "grows up" a little might be the ticket.