What is the base price of the Corvette? What is the expected base price of the Camaro? Nuff said.

 

Targets are just that. You may know something I don't (VERY possible), but I think the number I've heard (what I posted) is +/- 50 lbs of what will be on the spec sheet.

 

I would too, but $2k isn't going to buy 200lbs. I think that is realistic for 50-75 lbs. And that is if you can spread the cost over other VE's. You have to remember that all the low hanging fruit has already been picked.

Believe it or not, Caddy's rumored addition to VE may actually be a great help to a lighter Camaro.


That being said, I'm outta this thread!

 

I think with the word Vette on the car you are paying a premium just for that. Look at the Caddy that is built on the same platform as the Vette. Look at the difference in price. I dont have the numbers in front of me but isnt the Caddy close to 40k more.

 

True.

However my challenge was to name a current production V8 coupe with IRS and a price point within $500 of the current Mustang GT and weighing less than 3500 lbs.

The fact remains, there isn't one. However several here demand GM to build the next Camaro as such a vehicle.

 

Well yeah...duh.


Widen the challenge. Name any RWD, V8 coupe within $500 of a Mustang GT ....regardless of IRS. I can't think of any. So what? Does that mean any progress should be dismissed?

 

The all plastic body weighs roughly 150 pounds less than a steel paneled version would. The base Corvette has a light weight floor pan and uses lightweight materials in the cockpit structure. ZO6 has an aluminum chassis which reduces weight further. The 40k Lotus Elise has an aluminum chassis with a production run of about 10,000 units annually. Good luck finding a Chevy dealer with a seperate repair bay to do bodywork on alum chassis cars. I wonder how many Zo6 owners know this? Has anyone from GM even thought about this?

As far as Camaro, word has it the concept version is plastic paneled. Food for thought for the production version. The body on an all plastic bodied 5th generation would probably weigh 75 pounds less than the steel and plastic paneled 4th gen.

 

Maybe someone can explain to me what the underlying reason is for all this angst about the Camaro’s assumed weight…if you really want ‘Vette horsepower, ‘Vette weight and ‘Vette performance; why not buy a ‘Vette?

It’s really easy to tell GM what it should do and how easy it all is and how little it should cost from the comfort of your PC; quite another to be a design engineer trying to wrestle with a real budget and multiple (and often conflicting) mandates. GM can hardly afford to pour development money into a modest priced/high volume (hopefully) car like the Camaro that may only appeal to a tiny fraction of the Camaro’s potential buying public.

I get the feeling that the ones complaining the loudest about weight are those who think the only important factor for a car is how fast it will go in a straight line for a quarter mile…if that’s your thing that’s fine - nothing wrong with that; but don’t expect a manufacturer to build a car like that for such a small segment of the population; especially a manufacturer struggling to make a profit. You always have the option of buying the cheapest Camaro model offered, dropping in a crate engine and stripping out all the stuff (like seats, air bags, etc) you don’t want and you’ll likely have a rocket on your hands.

 

Cadillac is built on the same platform as the Corvette, and you DO pay a premium. A very huge one.

I think you are under a pretty big illusion that physical size of a 2 cars mean that both cars should weigh the same and cost the same to make. That's way off. It costs far more to make a Corvette than what's going to be acceptable to manufacture a Camaro.

Branden did a report on that some years ago for another website, and other people involved in this have chimed in over the years. It doesn't take much imagination to realize sandwiched balsawood floors and basic frame of the Corvette probally cost considerably more than the steel stamping of a unibody 5th gen Camaro.

GM as all automakers are under considerable pressure to boost fuel economy. Even before the days of global warming alarmists and oil independence being a matter of national security, you could take any American car and compare it's weight with any carmaker outside the US, and 90% of the time, our cars would be lighter.

BMW 6 series coupe has the advantage of extensive alumunum use. Yet it weighs over 3700 pounds.

There's a weight pattern here when we bring up RWD cars with highly capable rigid chassis and modern features. It's telling that someone had to go back 10 years to find an example of favorable weight on a RWD car.... and even then, it would probally twist itself in half if you pumped 500 lbs/ft of torque through it as modern Camaros (and Mustangs, and Challengers) will soon have.

 

Because if someone offered up the keys to each or they were both priced identically, I would take the new Camaro over a Corvette based on styling alone.

I don't dislike the C6 at all. I just can't see myself in one. The styling of the new car just speaks to me somehow. I can see myself in that car but not a Corvette.

You are just so wrong with that... I don't even know what to say.

From the very beginning, the most vocal weight critics have been those who autocross their cars, those who track their cars, and those who just enjoy a responsive car on twisty roads.

If anything, the 1/4 mile gang has been the least worried and least vocal on the matter. I've often read posts along the lines of "Who cares if it's heavy? As long as it has a big engine, I can just remove stuff to make it lighter".

 

I'm in the same boat. However my driving experience in a C6 Z51 at GM Autoshow in Motion left me with a grin from ear to ear. If there were no Camaro in the future, I'd certainly settle on the Vette.

 

That's tempting. An LS3, M6, Z51. Mmmmm. But you know what, deep down inside, I'm not really a Corvette person.

Speaking strictly for myself, my big problem is that I'm an incurable Camaro guy. I'm a Camaro guy, even though *I* went on "hiatus" with the 4th gen. To me, it was simply a lame and mediocre effort (short of the powertrain, that is), and I've been waiting for a better one ever since. I'm a Camaro guy, eventhough my last new Camaro purchase was 18 years ago. I've been waiting patiently for my car.

I've bought lots of new cars - both foriegn and domestic - during the Camaro's hiatus from me and then, the Camaro's hiatus from everyone else....but I've always identified myself as a "Camaro guy" to anyone who required a classification. I've never pulled the trigger on being assimilated into another car community, because I wanted to leave my passion for the Camaro undiluted. Just funny that way I guess.... Maybe even stupid too, but hey, whatever.

So here I am. A Camaro guy, still waiting. I know in certain terms that the 5th gen WILL be bigger than I want. So we'll see if I can suck that up or not. If weight-wise it becomes a pig, than as far as I'm concerned, the hiatus is over and that car is dead to me.

A Vette, yeah that's cool. I sure can appreciate one. In fact, in 1988, fresh out of school, with my first 'real' job secured, I ordered an '88 Z52 convertible with the 4+3 (anyone remember those?). Beautiful car. But......I'm just not a Corvette person. I won't obsess over different year center caps and rare performance options on a Vette as I would a Camaro. And truth be told, the Corvette was ordered as some sort of rebound protest vote against Camaro. You see, I was infuriated that Chevy would drop the hallowed Z/28 name for IROC-Z. I guess I showed them, huh? Anyway, long story short,the following year I bought my last new Camaro - which I still own.

So....I sure hope GM doesn't give us an overweight turd. Just because I call myself a Camaro guy, doesn't mean I'll buy any old thing, simply because it's got a Camaro emblem on it.

 

4th gen owners didn't have to buy a vette....

By the time this car comes out...they'll be more big cube 550+whp 4th gens out there than top model 5ths. Beastly 03-04 Cobra's, turbo C5's, Insane Foxbody's still to this day, hell even the occasional fast 3rd gen. Most on stock style suspension, and aside from a few rattles on some not all, these cars seem to be holding up just fine(not twisting in half). Not to mention the dozens of trailer queens that you don't see in every city, you're talking like 500hp is unheard of!


but who wants to be forced to pay for stuff thats going to be ripped out, and based on what the weight 'massagers' are saying, the structure as a whole is the culprit. What can really be done at that point?


Here's hoping we're all wrong, and no hard feelings

 

I wonder how many here have fat wives?.

 

I can understand where you are coming from although unlike you, until I bought my “00 Z28 I had always been a Firebird guy; not a Camaro guy.

I could have bought a ‘Vette here and there but have never done so. While I’ve always appreciated the Corvette and what it represents and its capabilities; I’ve always found it a bit pretentious. I’ve also found among the ‘Vetter owners I’ve known/socialized with that a significant portion of them bought the car as a status symbol and almost as often were just sanctimonious *******s pretending to be car guys where in the Camaro/Firebird I’ve more often found car guys that are truly car guys. All that to say, I’ve never really wanted to be identified with the Corvette owners crowd (no offense to those here who own/have owned a ‘Vette).

That said, no matter how much people may not like whatever the weight of the next Camaro turns out to be, there is still only so much GM can do to keep the weight down and deliver a car at the desired price point; cries from the enthusiast community notwithstanding.