Out of morbid curiousity....what do you define as 'normal people'?

I don't think it's me, as I really like the low slung, 'Vette like car that feels like a cruise missle on wheels.

 

Hmmm, do you have numbers? Cause i've seen the numbers and GT sales alone (close to 40,000 units past few years, and close to 60k in 00) where more than v6 and v8 firebirds combined, and close to being on par with v6 and v8 camaro's combined. Toss in the Cobra's and you'll see Ford actually sold more v8 powered mustangs than chevy did v6 and v8 camaro's. So even on the v8 side, the f-bod was still being outsold 3 to 1.

Btw: Females make up about 30% of mustang buyers. I think the camaro was something like 20%. But you look at the sheer numbers and it is obvious that 100,000+ guys are still buying mustangs every year to maybe the camaro's 25-3x's some thousand. So even on the male side, the ratio is still high. For every 1 guy that bought a camaro 3 to 4 guys bought mustangs.

So 1) how does that make the mustang a "chick" car? and 2) how does v8 mustang sales compare to f-bod v8 sales?

But true in that v6 sales are needed to keep moniker afloat. 100k+ units a year just isn't possible without a v6 in the lineup. I think this is one of the reasons why i think GM should heavily push the 5th gen v6 sales and models since the burden of sales wil rest squarely on their shoulders.

Err.... *NEW* mustang, camaro's, and 350z's don't cater to Gen Y'ers. Look up the age of a *NEW* Mustang and camaro buyers. Carpoint had the stats at one time, and the average age and income of a new mustang/f-bod buyer was a 40 some year old male with a 60,000 dollar annual income. Basically mid-life crises cars, lol. Sure you might see 16-18 year olds driving them, but they (or parent) either brought them used or they had daddy buy it for them new. Kids just don't buy these cars.

Also, Gen Y'ers may want a 350z, but they're all stuck with 4cyl front drivers like civics. I'm a Gen Y'er, and i'd much rather have a Ferrari than a mustang, that however doesn't mean i could afford one. "Want" and "could have" are two different things. The 350z is an expensive car. And for that reason, the mustang will sell to a lot more youths than a 350z with an average price close to 30k.

 

Here's my 2 cents.

1) camaro is no corvette. It is no sports car either.
2) A sports car personality and charector will equal sport car sales numbers....not good if GM is interested in selling 100,000+ units a year.

Looking at the 4th gen, it owed the low slung look to the steeply racked windshield, huge dash which had a good portion of the engine under it, etc.... Those areas could be addressed, but to a certain extent. Either way you look at it, there'll have to be sacrifises in ease of entry/exit, visibility, etc.... with any low slung car. Low slung and practical have never gone together.

Odd this is, a few in some of the other forums have accused the mustang of straying from its roots.

 

I know. There's lots of reason why those cars failed. Sh*t, Camaro, rx7, 300zx, 3000GT, supra, Marauder, and a bunch of modern designs flopped. Did that have to do with the styling direction (retro or modernitic)? Nope. There were other factors, and this holds true for the retro cars that failed as well. I don't know why some are so convinced the sales flop was due to the retro look.

Lots have also said the stang will fail sales wise based on the retro style and current retro sale trends alone. I've said it before and i'll say it again. Judging by how thin the pony car market got over the years, and the temporary death and poor sales of the 4th gen f-bod, the above logic would dictate that pony cars and coupes just don't sell nor do they have a place in todays market. Is this true? FALSE, since the mustang still managed to pull in strong sales despite these trends. See why you can't base the mishaps, flaws, and general lack of sales of one car and stick it to another? No two cars are built, percieved, recieved, marketed, etc... alike. Other words, Mustang has nothing to do with TB, Beetle, or PT cruisers, and their poor sales or whatever have nothing to do with the mustang.

*rant mode off*.

 

I see a lot of comparisons between the Camaro and the OLD Mustang. I think a lot of you are forgetting the NEW Mustang will be a much better handling car, have more power and will still use 87 octane. BMW has proven that you can have a sports or "sporty" car that doesn't have to be low slung to handle well. On top of that, with gas prices the way they are, 87 octane in a performance vehicle is very attractive. I can't wait to see performance reviews of this car.

BTW, Camaro owners fail to mention that the last two years Mustang has had more than a 260 HP GT. There's the Mach1 at 305 HP (actually 320) and the Cobra at 390 HP (more like 410-415). No factory Camaro that I know of has matched the 2003/2004 Cobra in performance (in any area). If a Camaro comes back, I still don't see it happening with the Mustang on the new chassis.

 

I don't think some of the guys here want a "sporty" camaro, they want a "sports" camaro...or as hp put it a "vette-lite". They "want" the low slung look of the 4th gens. Niel has gone as far as to say that he won't even buy one if it deviates from the low slung appearance.

So to some, the performance could be world class, the interior top notch, and the practicality to die for, and they still wouldn't give a rats ***. Lol, some strong opinions. To some, that low slung look has to be there.

BTI don't think it'll have trouble hanging or beating any of the lower to intermediate v8 mustang given a slightly detuned Ls2, but if those 500hp Cobras (not Cobra R) rumors have any truth to them, then it'll be a toughy.

Overall, there's no real reason why it couldn't look sporty, offer good practicality and everyday use while still showing the mustangs tail-lights.

 

I think GM has proven you can build and design a low slung, usable, comfortable cockpit in the C5 and C6 Vettes.

I see no reason this wouldn't be carried over into the next Camaro. My concern is that the next car would not be a sportscar or sports coupe but a 2 door sedan.

 

I honestly don't see that happening as long as they continue to sell the Monte Carlo.

 

But vette's a high-end 2 seater, and a sports car at that. On the other hand, you have a pony car slash sports coupe that is the camaro. Yes, the vette is practical for a 2 seater premium sports car, but how does that translate to a cheaper 2+2 camaro? Is the vettes level of practicality acceptable in a 20k v6 camaro that is expected to sell in HUGE volumes?

GM has proved that they are not content with selling 40 some thousand units a year. There just aren't too many bullet shaped, low slung cars on market that sell 100,000+ a year.

Another big thing, "perception". While the sn95 mustang was a bit more livable than the 4th gen f-bods, its image/look alone gave off the perception of a more practical car, and that to many was a selling point.

I'm just playing devils advocate here btw so don't think i'd want a GTO like camaro over a sleek sports one. As enthusiasts there are things that "we" want, but in looking at the overall picture, "we" the enthusiasts are only a minority of the buyers. 1) GM wants to mass produce this car 2) they want to sell in large volumes 3) they want to target mustangs 4) they want to attract as many buyers as possible. Obviously, a camaro with a sports car personality and character will most likely have a somewhat harder time meeting those 4 "potential" objectives.

 

Then it better be as agressive looking as the 2005 Mustang, because that my friend is one badass musclecar!

 

Even the v6 i saw at the autoshow had a muscular look to it.

http://mustanggt.homestead.com/files/pics/Mustangv6.jpg

 

I think the V6 is going to sell like mad. Though, perhaps not that color

 

Is that gold or green?

 

Some sort of green.

 

I understand, BUT, let me throw another curve in there. I'd be willing to bet the V6 Camaro buyers bought it for it's low slung look.

I think if three major things changed from the F4; raise the roof about .5 inch (like they did on the C5), shorten the doors a bit, and brought the base of the windsheild back while keeping the A-pillar rake close to the 4th gen or what it was on the 3rd Gens you'd have an interior that would, IMO, make both camps very happy. Perhaps take it a step further and have the V8 cars ride maybe .5 -1.0 inches lower