That's perfectly fine and understandable given the obvious cues, but do you think it is a "carbon copy" like some have suggested?

Lol, i think we've beaten this dead horse one too many times btw.

 

Weight is a big deal to me on hard tops. It's the one of the things that turned me off the GTO. I'm willing to mod a hard top for power, but not a convertible. I consider a four seat convertible for cruising and fun with friends, not racing (too dangerous in a drop top). 300 HP and 87 octane with a drop top is perfect.

 

I think he's talking about the Camaro, but I think it applies to both. And yes, that poor horse needs a rest

 

By my definition and design opinions and standards (which I hope doesn't come off as 'holier than thou' as it might), yes I do.

The number if simularities is too many to me, and in general it's just not original. And no, not talking about the Camaro.

I hope this horse has stopped breathing....

 

Ahem...


Whatever it is you decide to label that car isnt going to stop it from selling like MAD!

If GM can create a car that will sell in numbers like that, I could really care less if it pleases the anti-retro crew here.

Count me as one that is SICK AND TIRED of the anit-retro crying.

 

Whoa, settle down there big guy...grab a 'Mr. Pibb'

No body is crying. some of us are just equally passionate about not like retro design as those who like it.

 

Haha this thread is hilarious.

Who gives a rat's *** what the anti-retro crowd thinks. If the Camaro goes back to an upright 3 box design that's USABLE by NORMAL people, it'll rival the stang for sales. The new stang is going to DESTROY all myths about retro not selling well. Know why? Because previous retro picked the wrong era. The '30s(PT Cruiser), '40's(VW bug), and '50s(Thunderturd) were NOT the eras of sleek muscular cars. ONLY the '60s achieved that final inspired design of the muscle car that's All-American. WE love it still today. Beautiful designs are eternal. The shape transcends eras. I just drove past a black primered '70 Challenger and got a hard on. The SHAPE is functional yet brutally aggressive.

Nobody wants an oversized, low slung, upside down row boat, cat fish mouthed, vette-lite car....... anymore. Talk about weeding out the normal people from your consumer base. Guess why I never bought a Camaro.

'69 looked WAAAYY better than '02. Hell it was better.

For the Camaro's sake, that insider sketch better be close to the real thing.

Flame suit on.

 

So true. If I want a 69' Z, I'll go buy one. They are still around and as good as ever but who the hell needs a modern redo of the 69' design? I think some of the retro fans just don't think that a new design can be created that is timeless, this is wrong. It will be interesting to see how the Mustang does but you can't forget that Ford and Mustang fans will always buy Mustangs no matter how ugly or slow they are compared to competition.

 

Interesting perspective, I’ve never looked at it like that. Good job thinking out side of the box!

 

Because you enjoy looking at tail lights?

It does not matter what era the retro design was stolen from because that does not determin the success. Those cars are not from the era of sleek muscle cars because they are not muscle cars. Many will say that designs from the 50's were some of the best of all time and not the 60's but the T-Bird still failed to reach its goals so that is not really a sound theory. Think about this. What will we all think of these retro cars (or whatever you want to call them) in 20-30 years. We will say, those were remakes of classics and why buy them when you can have the real thing. They are like cover songs, never as good as the originals because the originals were classics and we know and love them so much.


You always talk about "the sales, the sales", but what does that have to do with the consumer? As long as the car can be profitable and sell in numbers to support that, then who cares if they are the sales leader. I want a superior product. I don't want a car that has to satisfy the 16 year old girl who wants a car because it is red. The car can not forget the core audience. I don't care what anyone trys to tell me, the Mustang is a compromise car and it tries to satisfy a little of everyone and make it a sporty coupe, not a sports car. This is fine for some, hell, it is fine for many but I want the car that the Camaro has always been. If this is not what people want anymore, then fine, GM can do what they want but I won't buy one anymore if they go to a Mustang-like formula. I won't whine or bitch, I'll probably just get a used Corvette or something.

 

Good points about the 'anti-retro' crowd, but you forget one thing:

Why in the world do I care what sells? It is not my job to do so. I don't work for GM and I'm not under any illusion that they need my help to sell cars*. It is my business to care about what I like, and only encourage them to do what I like**. If that means buying two of them and convincing all my friends to buy one when the Camaro turns out how I want it, great. On the flip side, don't expect me to buy or advocate (or even be interested in...) a car with styling and layout that I don't like, only because it sells well. If it sells well, it doesn't need me to help it any.

* Except for that day or so where I sold cars for GM.
** I assume that's why so many of us are here.

 

 

the T bird was underpowered and just overall not that great of a car.. not to mention, it really didnt offer much for the rpice, and isnt in a very popular segment of the market... more reasons other than its being retro lead to its failure

 

About the sales.
Sales are very important. Now, the Mustang might be getting ooos and ahhs now, but what about 3 years from now? Will it continue to sell at the level it does not? The V6 sales make up more then half of the total sales of the Mustang. For the last of the Camaro's, the V8 sales made up for the most of it. The Camaro became a huge enthusiats car with 325hp V8, superior handling, low slung feel, and large wheels. The Mustang was and still is a chick car. You cant tell me otherwise. The V8 models might have a male dominated demographic, but I bet you that if you look around at all the v6 mustangs, you will find a female behind it. Not to mention I see about 6-7 V6 models a day to maybe 1 GT or Cobra. Now, this is what keeps the Mustang afloat. Without V6 sales, the Mustang would probably sell at the level of the Fbodies.
When 16 year old girls dont like the design of the "old car" they will go to other places like Civics, Cobalts, and Corollas. There will be large sales numbers of the mustang in its first year, I have NO doubt in that. But after you see the 20384032840237 retro mustang, the look will just lose its coolness. The car will lose whatever mojo it had, and I belive that sales will go down.
Another fact is that the baby boomers do not want a Mustang, Well most wont. They might like the car, but the chances that they will buy one are slim. They want something that shows class and luxury like a Lexus, Caddy, BMW, or a MB, not a Mustang.
Now, who is gunna buy these mustangs? Well, we talked about the 16 year old girls, and how they might lose there attraction to the "old" looking car, so you lose thoes sales. You have the enthusiast that buy up the GT models as expected. But who else is gunna buy the car? Whos gunna buy up the V6 mustangs?
Last group is the Gen Y'ers, and the last time I checked, they wana drive something much more like a 350Z then a Mustang. They are attracted to flashy desing, and not some design that there parents love.

So now you have the case of fbodyitis. This is what happens when the car becomes an enthusiast car. Now all the sales are falling after the first year and a half or so, and Ford is thinking that maybe its just leveling off. The Mustang starts to sell at below then expected. But, maybe they pannic because they are getting beat on other levels like sedans and trucks. Ford freaks and trys to stop be bleeding, and pulls the plug on the declining Mustang to help support redesigns and updates for the seadan and trucks. But its too late. Ford falls into the red again, and Toyota and Honda roll over them..... But hey, Fords got that sweet *** GT40 right?

Ok, so maybe that wont happen... or will it?

Like Ive said before, as much as I would love to see a retro 69 Camaro as the 5th gen with a big 400hp LS2, 6spd, etc etc, I am more worried about its place in Chevy's line up past one year. The Camaro needs to sell at 110k units a year for at least 4 years after its released. I dont think thats possible with a retro design. By late 2nd and 3rd year, sales could drop.

 

I completely understand. I just don't want a Chevy Mustang. It had to be a design like Mustang for its launch in '67 to gain momentum...but for most of its life Camaro was something different. I don't see a reason why Camaro can't continue to be a lower-slung car while improving comfort, room, ease of entry/exit and so forth.