FWIW, IMHO, my bone-stock '95 Z/28 A4 would blow the doors off our '96 GT 4.6L (Vortech S-1 supercharger and 5-speed). I don't think it'd even be a contest.

 

I know you think I am loyal Chevy guy or whatever, due to our last z06 conversation, but I am just trying to keep the records straight here in regards to some of the information that goes around here.

You got that right.

 

Just ran across this thread and thought I'd share some thoughts.
I have owned at least one example of every gen f-body made, two mustangs, and one challenger. Overall, my favorites have been the Camaros. I currently own a 99Z28 and a 91RS. I will be in the market for a new vehicle within the next 2 years. I have seriously considered the "Cobra" '07 Mustang. I really like the new Charger SRT-8 as well. I'm at a stage where I don't mind terribly spending $40,000 on a new car I love. I have driven the new Mustang GT and absolutely love the styling and price! If GM can make a pony car that competes or betters the new Mustang, I'll be very pleased to buy one.
I gather that in January there is supposed to be an unveiling of a Camaro prototype at some kind of show??? I don't follow the boards enough to know what the initials meant. If someone could chime in here I'd be thankful, meanwhile, I'll try and search it out.

My gut feeling on a possible new Camaro: Build it, price it from $28,000 to $40,000 (depending on options) and I'll buy it. Anything I don't like I can change through the aftermarket.

KevinD

 

lol but the v6 and GT stangs dont stand up when comparing perfomance so why compare? The cobra is the only real competition and in the 03,04 models it accually can put down better numbers although its not naturally asperated...

 

perhaps not, but i know that I can whip something up that is nothing near the weight of the vette that would probably be able to clean its clock on the track, with the same engine, probably might be more expensive due to design... and most likely out handle the z06...

 

What track? In the 1/4 yeah probably but it would get killed on the road course by the Z06. If you make it as a road car it will get killed in the 1/4 AND you would be spending more to do it, AND it wouldn't be street legal, AND it wouldn't have a warrenty.

 

Just an FYI - that is a BIG statement to make.... You KNOW you can? I wouldnt be so certain that you can create something (heavier or lighter, I cant tell from your comment) that is better than the vette that would clean its clock at the track with the same engine and more than likely out handle the Z06. Comon now....

More expensive by design sure. Thats easy. Its called design a hand built tube chassis and go from there (but realize the chassis now has a totally different purpose! A tube chassis cannot be compared to a mass produced high volume car!). LS2 and AWD, drop the center of mass 4", get rid of the ground clearance, put the engine in the back with the rear diff, transmission and suspension bolted together and a carbon fiber body... End up with an Ultima GTR.

But to say you KNOW you can, again - what makes you so sure? I dont mean to really raze on you - but some of your comments on this thread have stirred up some emotion - realize dropping a comment like that off the cuff (as a car salesman) compared to teams of passionate engineers comes off with a very bad tone...

And to say you can do it all yourself top to bottom? I'd bet money you couldnt. You might be able to "steal" basic geometry and suspension components from other cars and such, but to do all the work yourself would take a lifetime or more for the chassis top to bottom, ideal gearing, coeff of drag etc. Even the best out there dont start from scratch. And to say you can "whip it up" makes it seem like you think its easy.

And if its that easy - please, feel free to explain.

 

so a car salesman cant have ambitions of being something better?

I have all my life been interested in mechanics and as i age, i continue to redesign more and more complex concepts from an engine to entire automotive designs...

I have recently been inspired to work in the automotive industry as an engeneer but from what i hear they dont pay too well, so why should I?

Comon you can honnestly tell me that what is on the market today is the best possible thing we can think up? and that no one can improve upon it? even a lowly car salesman?

No i couldnt do it all myself, I'm not familiar enough or specialized enough to design an engine from top to bottom nor an alternator or certain things, but to have already working parts I could design a better vehicle. Automotives has too many things in it to make anyone an expert and someone to proclaim them a know it all would be idiotic.

sure I think its easy, but thats because I have passion and no matter the task as long as someone is enegrized it will be easy.

I know I can do wonders for any industry given the proper education, I feel I'm a talented thinker. and no one can take that away from me nor change my feeling about that. and I have confidence in my innovations and less then conventional thinking... but perhaps thats why I'm so sure of myself is because I wouldnt build it the same way.

but to test my own ambions I have plans to build my concept(vehicle), as well convert my current hyundai to an awd perfomance hybrid, but until I have a bit of money they are just thoughts being refined in my mind. and occationally on small scraps of paper.

 

how can you be so sure?

definatly no warrenty, but why are you so sure that a better design can not be built? probably a team of engneneers designed the z06, but I'm sure if one had to do it by himself, that one could fully be capable of designing each innovation that makes the z06 so great. so why couldnt someone that wasnt affiliated with the making of the z06? dont underestmate the abilities of one man. I'm not einstin, but neither are any of those guys... Einstin once said, "its not that I'm any smarter, it's that I stick with problems longer"

 

I can be sure because GM spent a BUTLOAD of money with the best of the best, people who designed the C5 then the C6 then they went and got Alcoa (aluminum experts) to help design the chassis. They are a HUGE multi national corporation who has more money to sped on production costs than most men or women will make in a lifetime. And for YOU to think that YOU could do better is just ASSININE. Do you realize that the Saleen S7 would get its rear kicked by the C6 Z06? Do you realize that for its time it WAS top of the food chain.

So you (who has never built a car from the ground up) think that you can get enough divine inspiration to build a car that betters the Z06 just because you are a talented thinker?

To say that something can't be improved is stupid, do you not think that there will be a new Z06 in a few years? What I am saying is that GM has the BEST road car and one of the fastest 1/4 cars ever made and it is less than $70,000. The only things that touch it are exotics that cost in excess of $120,000. Now you think that you can do better than these monsters go ahead and try.

Please I am a very unique person and I consider myself to be a 'talented thinker' also. Perhaps I should stroll into the CDC and say "I want to cure aids, now I know there has been MILLIONS spent working on treatments that have failed BUT hey I am a talented thinker and I CAN DO IT!!!"

See how crazy that sounds? That is why we all think you are full of crap!

 

It would? Somehow I really doubt that, considering even the old one made more horspower than the vette, and weighed a few hundred pounds less, and has a better weight distribution over the drive wheels. I cannot see the new z06 even coming close to running with a new 750hp S7 either, that car is said to reach 230 mph, and boogies its *** off pretty quickly getting there too. And it is still lighter than the vette.

The new z06 is a great car, and I would without a doubt buy one if I had a money tree in my back yard, but it has not all the sudden become the end all be all of performance cars. Dollar:Performance ratio very easily yes, straight out best performing no.

 

One thing is for certain, you are definatly no Einstein...

 

D*mn forgot about the Turbo one. I was thinking vs the NA LS6 powered model.

 

okay, but these cars are made by people, so that means someone has to start somewhere? at age of 20 a person is dismissed of any tallents until he has a deploma in his hand. then he is capable of doing something, but GM requires a masters before they even look at a resume... and by that point he should be able to look at a blue print, but then of course he still doesnt know anything, and only the best of the best that work for GM, can work with the Corvette design.

Just because I respond in this forum, just because I'm a car salesman, I am discounted of credibility, no thats probably not it, its the fact I hold myself high, and I know what I'm capable of. I'm full of crap probably, accually I've heard usually everyone has about 20 lbs in them at all times, now I dont know if that is true then I'm probably about 1/8 crap, but not full yet...

no one is einstien, in accuality he wasnt all that special, just had nothing to lose so he went public with his philosophys, something no one else would do at the time, even if the people who had the same ideas as Einstien.
He was dedicated, and dedicated his life to it, but like almost all mathematicians discover everything they are going to discover before their mid 20's... so why does GM only hire people with a masters degree? people who are out of their prime?

Sure I'm not going to get respect, but as long as you realize that a better model can be built for cheaper, and lighter...

 

We aren't dismissing you because you post on a forum or because you are a salesman. We are dismissing you because you think you know more than people who have been studing and designing cars for most of their lives. They make it a point to understand EVERYTHING they can about the part or parts they are responsible for. You however, by your own admission, have little to NO knowledge of these systems. And yet you think you can do better, that sounds really egocentric.

I know my limits and in order to better help people I am going to continue my education, that is how I will earn the respect needed to do what I want to in life. You want to build cars then go start your own company with your own money OR go back to school and get the required degrees to be looked at by the people with the cash and the opportunities, until then you are just a rambling monkey.