And hence, the name of this thread..... reality check.

Just take 20 minutes or so and read this entire thread. If you were an outsider getting some feeling on what a new Camaro should be, by the time you get to the end, not only would you need a valium, you'd still have no idea what we want.

You'd also have a feeling you were Alice and just fell down a rabbit hole, and reality was suspended.

*An intense debate about 4" of length?
*A 3200 pound Camaro?
*Lazy GM engineers?
*GM NOT prefering to take the most cost effective way to solve a problem?
*Expecting a $20,000 Camaro to be built the same way as a $45,000 Corvette, let alone a $60,000 Z06?

I'm 100% confident that the people who are sheparding the "Camaro" through the system know what the car represents, and is aware of what is and isn't a Camaro.

I was hard on GM for not coming to the sites and asking enthusiasts what they are looking for like Ford did with the Mustang. But Mustang sites that I know of are quite a bit more uniform and consistent than here, so going one on one the way GM has been doing is probally better under the circumstances.

I started this thread as a bit of a rant against "Panic Rumors" that really had no basis in anything other than opinion.

My idea is simply to wait and see what's going to happen. That's what Design Studies and "Concept" cars are all about.... FEED BACK!

Sure, you can "Take action" now. But seriously... is anyone going to take someone else seriously if the person is wrong because they don't have the right information??

Wanna influence the Camaro? Wanna give input? Wanna make a difference?

When the "design study" comes out, check it out for yourself, and THEN let GM know what you think via mail & e-mails if you don't get a chance to talk to the reps there. You may help fine-tune the car, or your ideas may help create a path for the 6th gen, or you may end up contributing to killing Camaro once and for all before it's even approved. It'll all be up to public response.

Getting worked up now is futile, useless, and pretty stupid. Wait till you see the car and GM's listening. Then let 'em know what you think.

Sounds fair to me.

 

I LOVE the Solstice. BEAUTIFUL! But it is down on power for its weight, and consequently is very slow. Consider it has barely more hp than a Miata, and is 400+ lb. heavier. And I don't really want a roadster. If they build a Solstice coupe turbo, I'll probably buy it.

But I REALLY want a 300hp v8 2+2 coupe that isn't a damn porker. Is that so wrong of me?

 

Should all Camaro enthusiasts have to be a homogeneous bunch, of one single opinion? I'm assuming that any powers that be monitoring this thread are smart enough to look at the differing opinions and take them into account, or not, as warranted. Surely they wouldn't look at a thread like this and just say "My God! I can't figure out what 'they' want! I give up!"

Just voicing my concerns, that a Camaro based on a bigger heavier platform will be (for me anyway) too big and heavy. I haven't gotten an ounce of reassurance. I do still hope to be pleasantly surprised!

Let it be known that *I* NEVER referred to "lazy engineers". In another thread I referred to automakers IN GENERAL (NOT their engineers!) as "lazy" regarding making weight a priority.
Having been repeatedly informed that my opinions on weight are irrelevant, I threw the "if somebody listening actually cares" comment in to prevent the inevetible responses saying that what I think doesn't matter. I came off sounding very sarcastic, but my intent was to point out that I REALIZE that weight might not be a priority for many of us, or the public at large. In which case, if GM doesn't CARE that weight is a very important TO ME ONLY, who could blame them?
But of course, my *secret hope* is that somebody with power/authority WILL see my little posts and say to himself "My God, this voice in the wilderness is absolutely RIGHT. We MUST excorsize as much weight as is practically possible!"

I'm sure I come off as a rank *******, but I don't mean ANYTHING personally. I *am* looking forward to the '06 NAIAS Camaro concept, whether it meets my desires for lighter weight or not.

 

Just make it a car that you would be happy with and proud to own and that you feel is worthy of the name "Camaro" and I know I'll like it.

 

Maybe you should research it alittle more. The Mustang GT from 99-04 weighed in around 3250, making it alittle more than a c5. Ford did do a commendable job of keeping the weight down. The Fbody was alot closer to that 3500lb mark you mention.

 

Having owned and driven both SN95 Mustangs and 4th Gen Camaros I can honestly say there really is no comparison between the two. The driving experience in the Mustang has a huge fun factor (having a supercharger doesn't hurt) however it doesn't come close to matching the shear joy of driving the Camaro on the open road. The SN95 Mustang has that big-motor in a little car feeling, whereas the 4th gen Camaro is much closer to that original ponycar formula, even if it its a bloated pig. The Camaro just feels like a more solid car and a cockpit size worthy of large-sized adults. I feel like a sardine when I drive the Mustang. I'm only 5-10, but even with my seat all the way back I really can't get comfortable in it. I've never had that problem in the Camaro. Now if you could fit a 4th gen sized cockpit in a SN95 sized package, you might have something there. However, I don't think its possible, nor do I think that would truly fit the Camaro "formula" persee.

 

I beg to differ. F-body hardtops are around 3,350. My SS vert, with SFC's is 3,580. These are "real" weights, not "spec" weights.

 

Again........rest assured that weight IS a priority!

C.A.F.E. Standards are such that weight has to be a priority......moreover, with Gasoline prices skyrocketing.......you betcha it's a priority.....and it has been for years.

Keep in mind that weight saving material....such as Titanium and such.....is expensive. It's a matter of balance ...(both figuratively and literally) and .. price does enter the picture when you're looking at 'affordable'..........

In fact, there are reasons why 'bigger' components weren't used in the 4th gen....and it came down in many cases, to weight.


One thought.........who was one of the chief engineers on the 4th Gen?

John Heinricy.

What does John Heinricy do besides work for GM???????????????

 

He races...and wins!

 

He does the job you're going to hire me for when he retires......right!?!?!?

 

3250? Where in the heck are you getting your numbers?

 

very good!!!!

 

Maybe if you add 600 lbs!!! They came in at the same or higher than a 4th gen... Most more...

 

I don't find that hard to swallow. Still 100lbs heavier than the GTs were 99-04 though.

 

Go post over at www.stangnet.com or www.corral.net. See what they weigh. There are more than a few guys who have actually weighed them.

Here are some websites too, if you are too lazy to ask the owners.

http://www.fast-autos.net/ford/99fordmustanggt.html

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/compa...3/page009.html

http://www.kron4.com/global/story.asp?s=2591120

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Vehi...184.A3714.html

These are just a few links a googled, I would get more but I am headed out the door. As I said earlier, maybe you should do your research.

There is only one Mustang that is even remotely close to the weight you mention, and it could beat the **** out of any fbody in a stock for stock race.
Of course I am talking about the Cobras, and they have always in more. Way to be uninformed.