First of, MunchE, what the hell are you talking about??

Well, I traded in my Z today for a Beetle Turbo S. Ya, its really fast, so I really don't care how I look in it. See ya all at the track!

 

I only read a few of the replies on this thread, and they are absolutely ridiculous. If the car isn't for you that's fine; everyone's entitled to their opinion. And looks are subjective, sure. I have seen more than my share of tacky F-cars in my day, just as with the Civics and everything else. I don't recall so much backlash when the Cobra R came out with it's gaudy wing...this is the same line of car. A road going race car. And that's right, there is plenty of race heritage that has gone into this line of Subarus and Mitsus, and anyone who has made it behind the wheel of one can attest to their appeal. They are incredibly fun cars to drive, and I'm not guaging this against econoboxes. I have test driven just about everything--from Vibes to Corvettes, not to mention all the F-cars I've been around over the last 5 years and the one I owned. To deny the car with the mentality, "it's fast but who cares--it looks dumb" is poor reasoning based purely on convenience. I'm sure there are a lot of Mustang owners out there saying the same thing about the F-cars.

If you are so closed minded as to not accept that there are other fun and entertaining cars out there beyond what you are immediately familiar with, that is your loss. Trust me, it does not make you less of a man to broaden knowledge and appreciation every once in a while. Everyone has their preferences. Mine are performance cars--especially unique ones--and there are a lot of them out there. As an owner of an '02 WRX, I can assure you it is every bit a performance car, regardless of whether you are stuck on its number of doors or country of origin. But if that's too much to accept, I'm sure there are others who are just as adolescent-minded and share your same attitude, mentallity, and penchant for poor humor who will be willing to exchange wits.

Thumbs up to those who can exhibit educated, well-formed opinions. This is truly a rarity on this board.

For the rest of you, thanks for upholding an image and attitude that dragged two wonderful nameplates to their deaths after 35 years. See if you can get yourself into a barbershop to take a little off the back.

 

Umm, you know I was with you until you piped up with this hypocritical gem:

 

Hardly. It wasn't a jab, but deliberate sarcasm. If "gems" such as the one below want to play up stereotypes, I figured the same people should hear how ridiculous they sound.

That's where you should be rolling your eyes.

 

Lets just all agree that this car is quick, but not for everyone.

I'm sure it is fun to drive as are just about a cars that can do at least 14's

I like the powertrain, but not the price or body. I think the SRT-4 is a much better buy at $10,000 less and just a few tenths off, but I would not buy that car either. I want a RWD car as I'm sure most people here do, that is after all why we are at this message board.

Lets not forget that sweet V8 rumble... it's like a 1000 angles singing

 

...so some people will buy a ugly, 4 door, econobox with a grocery cart push-bar wing, if it just feels fast.......

For those defending these abortions......we've just spent a week debating the new Mustang's styling......so while your little cracker boxes (yes, I can say this, I'm waay faster than all of them......and I mean on the road race track too) might feel fast and even put down some respectable numbers on some hypothetical track.......style does matter for the 99% of the rest of the time that you have to be seen in public with these little turds.

If anyone can honestly argue that some little boxy, 4 door econobox....with big ol' push-bar wings (call us mullet wearers will you ) have even the slightest bit of style I'd suggest Lens Crafters.

Next thing you know we'll be forced to listen to some pathetic defense of the Honda Element...........

 

You got the heat on "high" tonight, no Jerry?

I do feel that the car garnishes respect from most in here for what it brings to the party. I certainly approve of the performance-end of things.

I won't defend those who can't express themselves in a mature fashion... that's not my job. But like you said yourself, right above here; "If the car isn't for you that's fine; everyone's entitled to their opinion. And looks are subjective, sure. " So why the across-the-board defense of it's looks?

I was very unattracted to the high-riser on the rear with the stylish, curvy stanchions. I've seen too many of those exact same $99 JCWhitney specials on the back of Civics, Accords, Preludes, Camrys, Tercels, Lancers, Escorts, Beetles, and even Cimcas in the last 2 years. To see the same one on a factory car just turns me off - bad. When the 2000 Cobra R came out, you didn't see a bazillion high-wings like you do now, and it was straight out of the SCCA rules book, not the JCWhitney book.

Maybe you should have gone more specifically at the poster/issues you had disagreement with, I dunno. Respectfully, and no flame intended, but you kinda stooped to the same level you were scrutinizing... not typical for you dude. I'm good w/ you, but that was pretty rough commenting on "the whole board" like that. I think most of the guys in here are pretty cool "car guys" myself - with the occasional trolls of course...
but we can usually spot those!

 

Some people just like going fast. If you got outrun by a Turbo Bug, I'm sure you'd justify it to yourself as "Yeah, but that's a BUG, ha ha ha I'm still cooler"

...but you still lost.

Fast is fast, some people realize that and some people are all about the image of having a fast car. You know, those guys with Civics and fake N20 tanks are all about the image. You're all about the image.

Hrmmmm....coincidence?

Exactly. I love the blatant fanboyism on both sides of the fence. "LOL imports suck god that car is ugly and rice look at the wing ps it's slow!" "LOL domestics are heavy and slow and guzzle gas look at the ugly styling"

Same idiot, different car.

Eh, the Lancer is a bit over the top but not too bad. I think the WRX STi is a damned fine looking car. And "feels fast" is kind of discounting a car that's actually fast.

*shrug* I had a similar debate with a guy here at work when I read about the Neon SRT-4. I was saying it's awesome that a car is coming out that can run a 14.2 for $20,000. He says it's still a Neon and a lame import and lollerskates his convertable 95 Mustang GT Auto is cooler. Nevermind that it's about a second slower in the 1/4, it's still cooler than a 14 second Neon.

I'm guessing you guys didn't think that 12 second Dodge Caravan was cool either, did you?

 

I'm sure just about everyone here would love to get in the driver's seat and take this thing for a spin. Personally, given the opportunity I'd be crazy not to want that.

However! ...Would I buy this car and put it in my garage. I don't think so. No one can argue good design, handling, and drivetrain. Looks may be only skin deap, but that's a make/break for me and most anyone out there.

 

Ok, I guess I was an *** with my previous statement, there's no excuse. What I try to get at but usually have a hard time saying is this.

My whole life I was raised on American cars. Thats all I ever heard about, thats all I ever saw. I look at this as a "Rivalry" kind of thing. It's all about pride in being an American. I will ALWAYS buy American. Ya ya, don't spit all the hooplaw how some american cars are built in mexico and CANADA...., and how some japanese cars are built in America. The design stays faithful to the company, wherever they are from. Look at it this way, and I'm not saying it in a bad way. How many times do you see a Japanese kid/guy in a Camaro or Mustang?? I think I've seen it once. Why do they always buy honda and hundai and toyota??? They are staying loyal to their country, or at least that's the way I perceive it and I know that I'm not the only one. I like competitions and rivalrys. If more American boys and girls would have bought camaros/firebirds instead of foreign cars, I can guarentee GM would have never let them slip and wouldn't have given up on them.

I don't hate ricers and other foreign cars. I actually DO like the WRX. I just really believe deep in my heart that we should support our heritage and our history, our good ol American cars. We should be proud of our big V8 gas guzzling *****. Ya so it may cost a little more in insurance, a small sacrafice to stay true to good ol red white and blue.

Maybe it's just the Marine in me that makes me so patriotic, I just don't know why we think we have to go buy these other cars to get performance. I'm 6'6 and I can't even fit in any of em!!! At the car show a few days ago I got stuck in a damn S2000. Literally STUCK!!!

Speed is speed and no one can take that away. Appearance is appearance and personally I never liked little cars. Maybe if more Americans thought this way and acted like it, Camaro/Firebird would still be around and as KICK *** as ever.


God Bless the USA!!!

 

Perhaps I should have directed comments more at individuals, but it seems historically there is backlash in this community to anything remotely different than the F-cars most of us own or have owned. Even Mustangs, the closest thing left to our cars, are torn down and labeled as lame cars. Maybe I just get tired of the "everything else sucks" mentality.

I hardly labeled people who do not approve of this style as being mullet wearers, but that those who lack the intelligence to assemble an objective, post-adolescent thought are doing nothing but playing into the stereotype others hold of the F-car enthusiast. Truth be told, the Evo is probably not the styling statement I want and I prefer the looks of the Subarus. My own car is quite humble in comparison.

While opinions are everyone's freedom, offensive, derogatory, and racially-insensitive remarks have no place in any community--and that should be true regardless of how fast your car is. It's unfortunate that some seem to believe "King of the Road" status provides grounds to be a social invalid. Then again, that might be too much for some as I suspect the "enough of the PC crap!" flag to be waved.

 

12 second Dodge Caravan is cool at the track but not on the street, or on a date. I bet you could get more girls in a V6 Camaro than a 12sec. mini van.

There is track cool and real life cool. That is why so many V6 Mustangs sell. What if the evo and WRX were only 125HP and those were only apperance packages, I bet no would say they were cool. Think Aztek

 

1140 views as I write this, so guess it's safe to say I woke up the guys!

At any rate, although I sensationalized things a bit on the heading, the fact remains that a Evo VII with a very good "shift man" can infact eat a LS1 piloted by a person of mediocore shifting ability. There is about 2 tenths of a second difference in 0-60, and less than 5/10 in the quarter mile.

Alot of people here are under the impression that this makes the LS1 the undisputed king (likely the same people who refused to believe that the 2004 SC Cobra would eat a Z28SS, or the same crowd who said "So what, I can go out and get an aftermarket blower for my 2002 SSto take on that 2004 Cobra", w/o comprehending the double irony in what they were saying). Hate to break it to ya, but with each new quick car that comes out, the LS1 becomes less & less that undisputed king.

Make no mistake, the Evo VII is NO WRX. WRX has 220hp, and I've been spanking them on the freeway fairly often. But a 271hp Evo VII is a different bird altogether. It's ugly, it has 4 doors, it's (IMHO) overpriced, it's AWD, and it will at the very least, keep up with an LS1 (in a run to 60mph, the difference in time between the 2 is about from the nose of your Camaro to your fuel filler door! ).

But all cars are getting faster by the month. Each moment Camaro is out of the market, the bar keeps rising. The current Mustang GT is within .3 seconds to 60 of an LS1. The new Mustang is supposed to be ALOT faster. The GTP supercharged engine in a lighter Impala could realistically outrun every production Camaro made from '71-'92.

It won't be too long before someone comes up with a normal family sedan that spanks LS1s. Sad, but very very true.

 

Agreed. No issues there... I said long ago that it takes more of "a man" to respect cars for what they are, not just who makes it or what it's name is.
It's OK to have loyalty, but don't disrespect everything else because you have your preference, right?

Again, agreed. I will garnish nothing but respect for any guy who can present his position to me clearly, and professionally. I even like a little humor thrown in for spontaneity at times. But trash and bash doesn't cut it with me. I probably skip 5% of the posts in this forum, because if it starts out lame and pointless, it will probably end the same way... lame and pointless. I don't have time to waste on those. It's more like 40-50% on other boards though. And too, you gotta accept that sometimes, a guy just has a bad day... doesn't make it right, but it helps you understand that's not his normal approach.

In my opinion, this forum in particular has the highest number of true "car guys" on the net that are relatively unbiased, read that to say that they respect other makes and models, despite not owning one. There is a "core group" that comes in here at least every day or two, shares some new info, and offers thoughts and opinions without the slander and derrogative remarks. I enjoy the opinions of those guys very much, and I have to admit that some have helped me to see some new perspectives too. That is why I come here, myself. I guess I'm saying, if a guy can't talk "car" with these guys in this forum, he can't get along ANYWHERE else on the web!

And no, I'm not going to pull out the PC flag...
I burned mine a few years ago...
It touched the floor!

 

An Impala SS with bolt ons! wait... that's not from the factory...

A mercury Merauder (if they put the 5.4 engine into it)

A BMW m5.

It is sad. Also to think by the time Camaro returns (if) it'll have to have a 12second stock 1/4 mile time. New car insurance is going to get disguestingly high 10 years from now.