How do you figure that?


Fair.

 

Why couldn't it be built on the Camaro platform with longer overhangs. Piggy back it with a Buick, Holden, and Monte Carlo version, and there is plenty of volume there. I know people will say that GM does not want brands to overlap, but would your average Pontiac buyer pick up a Velite? Would a Monet Carlo buyer buy a GTO?

On the subject of displacement, My wife got better gas milage in here Trailblazer and Equinox than she did in here 4 cylinder RAV 4. It is all a matter of how hard a engine has to work to tow around a car around. I might be proven wrong...but BMW has not built it's fortune on the backs of 4 cylinder RWD cars...it is the straight 6 that pays the bills.

 

The GTO was farther along than just an animation on a computer screen.

 

In the U.S., yes. In the rest of the world, they sell a lot of 4s.

 

This Pontiac is not going overseas though.

I also think we might have creasted in terms of gas prices anyway (for the next few years). Most of the rise was driven by speculation, and not actual facts. A real reason for gas prices to be high would be that the world's producers are not factually able to meet demand. Aside from Katrina, the last rise in gas prices can be largely attributed to a bunch of "mays". We "may" have a rough huricane season. We "may" go to war with Iran, etc. Once these things looked less likely, every one finally looked at the facts and realized inventories around the world are really quite high right now. OPEC wants to cut production, but their own greed is killing them. These countries were rolling in dough at $35 a barrel gas just a few years ago. Now three years later, they are trying to cut production to keep prices above $55 a barrel, and the individual contries have gotten too greedy to do it. Everyone wants production cut...but no one wants the income loss. Better yet, once they do cut production more and more, it creates unused capacity, which kills speculation. How can investors bid up oil, and claim a shortage when OPEC is sitting on 2 million BPD of unused capcity. Also, the new higher price levels have also funded record pace new exploration....like the big find in the gulf of Mexico. Barring major world conflict, or a natural disaster we should be find for a few years in terms of gas prices.

A much greater threat to gas prices, and world peace in the long term IMO is the fact that China is now going to great lengths to secure exclusive oil deals to supply it's empire. This is no doubt going to lead to us butting heads with them at some point...it is just a matter of how hard.

 

For sure. My point is that it wasn't a completed program, waiting in a dimly lit warehouse for Rick Wagoner to press the "go" button.

 

Who knows how high gas prices will go... as you say, China will be using more and more oil.

Even though the Pontiac brand won't be going overseas, you can bet that these cars would/will.

I like the Pontiac plan, because it puts GM into a niche that no one else occupies -- reasonably priced smaller RWD vehicles. I suppose you could say that Mazda is there with the Miata and RX8. Whatever.

Also, given future hybrid possibilities and the current availability of 4 cyl turbos that make 260hp, I really think a line of cars that are too small for 4s and 6s are a good idea.

Besides, it's not like GM doesn't have plans for a V8. Just buy a Chevy or a Cadillac.

It seems like all the complaints are just that Pontiac won't be in the badge engineering business any more. Do people really want a Firebird if it's just a Camaro with a power antenna?

 

Lets get away from the GTO talk, and lets get back on this RWD set up.
I assume that Pontiac will share this with Holden. Now, wouldnt Opel want this as well? And if thats the case, and this RWD "Beta" chassis replaces the Epsilon, does that mean that the Aura will seperate from its European counterpart down the road and that Pontiac will be more Opel then Saturn?
I have always wonderd how that will work out.
Pontiac will share this small RWD as Holden possibly trades a larger RWD sedan, Holden shares cars with Opel/Vaux who shares design and chassis (and soon, become one)with Saturn.

 

I don't think this chassis will replace epsilon, epsilon II seems pretty set in stone.

 

Also Epsilon is going to be much higher volume.

 

Holden and Caddy will certainly share in this architecture.

EPII won't be replaced by it, except maybe for Pontiac.

 

The overhangs are essentially fixed. Even if they weren't, I'm not sure of what might be gained by increasing them.

If you were to use the Camaro's platform as a starting point for a GTO, I'd imagine add 3 or 4 inches to the wheelbase would be the easiest way to go.

 

You're just not getting it. I (and apparently a few others) don't want to have to go cross town to get a v-8! We like Pontiac styling over Chevy's & we our weekend car to have the grunt of a v-8 (which I have yet to see a 4 or 6 cyl. match) as well as the sound of one! To me, the reason I bought a Firebird over a Camaro was the looks, not the content. And my prefering a GP/GXP over an Impala SS also has to do with stylng plus the advantage of bigger tires & brakes for better handling & stopping. Your telling me I have to shop Chevy is like when there had been no Camaro announced & people told you to buy a Mustang if you wanted a pony car! Now, how did that make you feel? If you can remember that then you know where I'm coming from. You see from where I sit not all G.M.'s are created equal. So a Pontiac line up with no v-8 is, to me, a zombie. It's dead, but don't know it. Ah well, what do I know. It seems us Pontiac fans are in the minority from what everyone on here is saying, so I guess our opinion doesn't matter anyway.

 

I'm an Oldsmobile fan, so I think I know a little about not being able to get the kind of car I like from the division I like (haven't really been able to do that since 1987). My aunt has been buying Buicks for 20 years, but she has been getting cars like the Century (i.e. cheap Buicks) that are no longer available from Buick.

The point is that for a long time now, there have not been enough marque fans to keep the divisions going selling slightly restyled versions of cars. It may be enough for you, but you're in a small minority.

What GM is trying to do is to build distinction between the divisions, so that the divisions will appeal to more types of buyers. Now, you can't build distinction if you can get the same car with slightly different styling from the various divisions.

So I can't get a V8 RWD from Olds. Okay, I bought a Chevy. It was nice to have a choice of Pontiac and Chevy to choose different styling variations. But I recognize that is very expensive for GM to provide, and I move on.

 

Why would you want longer front overhangs? The commodore would be the 4dr of what Id picture the GTO essentially to be dimension wise with no long front overhang. Also The GTO should have more rear leg room and possibly a slightly larger trunk like the 5 series otherwise its a Firebird. anyway that was my take.

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