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Pontiac badged Commodore to the US is 'go', and Torana being looked at!

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Old Oct 3, 2006 | 09:36 AM
  #76  
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Re: Pontiac badged Commodore to the US is 'go', and Torana being looked at!

Originally posted by Formula79

Take the Chrysler 300. It is probally the most compelling RWD car in a long time. It is built on a frigging Mercedes chassis, has great quality, a low price, and even comes with an AWD option. Now go compare it's sales to say, Impala, Camry, Accord, Altima, Mazda6, etc. You will see my point.

A RWD car will sell, but not in FWD bread and butter numbers. While many people here love RWD, most of Americans buy differently. Many younger buyers have now grown up thinking mom's camry is cool...so it is much easier for them to graviatate to FWD.

As much as you guys may think different, car makers build what the public want's, not vice versa.
This kinda goes along with what I was trying to say (I think).

The last of the RWD cars offered by GM were hopelessly out of date when they were finally retired. It could even be argued that they were out of date when they were last redesigned/downsized in (B-body) 77 and (G-body) 78. The 91 redesign of the Caprice shouldn't count, it was just heinous and pretty much destroyed the market for that car which up to that point still managed to move at healthy numbers - despite the old man rep. These cars must certainly have offered pretty high profits given the token investment they recieved over the years. They became irrlelevant because they never changed much after their initial downsizing - grilles and taillights notwithstanding - oh wait there was a major freshening in 81 but beyond that....

They only hung around because of stubborn, lingering demand for them. The A-bodies were certainly not a real replacement despite what GM may have intended and the GM10/W-bodies took forever to break cover. But still it was the lack of innovation and priority granted them by GM and stagnancy that killed them - these RWD cars were originally slated to be memories by 84 or thereabouts but they continued to sell well.

I for one, and this is just my opinion, think that if the manufacturers had chosen to continue to offer RWD products - not just sport models like Camaro/TA and the Vette, but bread and butter models - with modern structures and underpinnings, contemporary style/proportions and innovative drivetrains there would now be a larger market for such cars than there currently is. (Basically afforded the same evolutionary improvements bestowed on their FWD cars)

As it was they abandoned the market to the up-scale European marques who continued to sell RWD cars but at premium prices so the advantages of the drive layout became the domain of those who could afford the price of entry and the exclusivity that goes along with it. RWD went from being basically affordable by the many to affordable by the few.

Who knows, maybe FWD still would have prevailed, we'll never know... but you're right, RWD cars will not sell in sufficient numbers to challenge the importance of FWD product in the lineup.

Last edited by SharpShooter_SS; Oct 3, 2006 at 09:39 AM.
Old Oct 3, 2006 | 01:21 PM
  #77  
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Re: Pontiac badged Commodore to the US is 'go', and Torana being looked at!

Originally Posted by formula79
Take the Chrysler 300. It is probally the most compelling RWD car in a long time. It is built on a frigging Mercedes chassis, has great quality, a low price, and even comes with an AWD option. Now go compare it's sales to say, Impala, Camry, Accord, Altima, Mazda6, etc. You will see my point.

A RWD car will sell, but not in FWD bread and butter numbers. While many people here love RWD, most of Americans buy differently. Many younger buyers have now grown up thinking mom's camry is cool...so it is much easier for them to graviatate to FWD.

As much as you guys may think different, car makers build what the public want's, not vice versa.
I think there is a lot to that. The car industry (led by Chrysler!) did a pretty good job convincing the buying public that they will die a grusome death if they venture out in a rear wheel drive car in the snow.

That said, I think there is some wiggle room as far as the market goes and the 300 might not be the high-water mark. I say this primarily for one reason - the V6 isn't very good. The stats look nice - 250 ish hp - but every test I've seen of the car leaves reviewers wondering where that power is. Chrysler didn't help this too much with the IT'S A HEMI!!! marketing scheme. Making the engine a second brand is great and all, but it also put all the appeal on the most expensive, smallest market model.

If GM could release the zeta with the 3.6L and silky driving characteristics, and then market it as a terrific car not just a fun toy, they may have a chance to exceed expectations for the RWD market.
Old Oct 3, 2006 | 01:45 PM
  #78  
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Re: Pontiac badged Commodore to the US is 'go', and Torana being looked at!

Originally Posted by flowmotion
Well, the Monte Carlo/etc I mentioned tended to sell to a NASCAR audience that did care about RWD performance. The F-Body almost went FWD, as did the Mustang. There was a conspiracy to kill RWD in the US, and it was really only the backlash of the performance customers that stopped it.

But, I agree -- in the average case, FWD will be lighter and cheaper, and therefore a more rational choice for the average driver.

Now, I have no idea how many people buy the 300C because it's RWD -- but I suspect it has a not insubstantial group of drivers that just like the size/styling and couldn't care less which wheels are motivated.
Isn't it great though, even today's monte carlo is FWD... And damn, talk about a car that is in desperate need of a face lift.
Old Oct 3, 2006 | 01:55 PM
  #79  
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Re: Pontiac badged Commodore to the US is 'go', and Torana being looked at!

Originally Posted by formula79
Take the Chrysler 300. It is probally the most compelling RWD car in a long time. It is built on a frigging Mercedes chassis, has great quality, a low price, and even comes with an AWD option. Now go compare it's sales to say, Impala, Camry, Accord, Altima, Mazda6, etc. You will see my point.
How many FWD 300M's did Chrysler sell?

Plus Pontiac still has the G6 to sell. I'll agree with you though that something at pontiac should still be FWD (at least for a while). AWD EPII G6 should make those that want more performance and HP happy while the FWD G6 can appeal to the masses that can't afford or want a RWD Grand Prix.
Old Oct 3, 2006 | 06:35 PM
  #80  
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Re: Pontiac badged Commodore to the US is 'go', and Torana being looked at!

Bring the Commodore here either as the G8 or GTO to replace the GTO and Grand Prix GXP, and let the slightly larger, improved next generation G6 or maybe the LaCrosse instead replace the lower level Grand Prixs.

Last edited by ehaase; Oct 3, 2006 at 06:39 PM.
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