Oh Oh!
Registered User
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,072
From: Lilburn, GA, USA
Originally posted by guionM
Not taking away anything from the Corvette. It's a car that can keep up with (and sometimes out manuver and out accelerate) exotics costing twice or thrice the price, yet pretty much anyone can afford one, new or used.
But the idea of a 4 passenger coupe with the abilities the Cobra has for the price the Cobra is pretty astounding.
The last Cobra couldn't beat a Z06 on the track, but it was close enough to force the Z06 driver not to make any slight mistakes whatsoever, and it was pretty much no contest with a standard Corvette.
Not taking away anything from the Corvette. It's a car that can keep up with (and sometimes out manuver and out accelerate) exotics costing twice or thrice the price, yet pretty much anyone can afford one, new or used.
But the idea of a 4 passenger coupe with the abilities the Cobra has for the price the Cobra is pretty astounding.
The last Cobra couldn't beat a Z06 on the track, but it was close enough to force the Z06 driver not to make any slight mistakes whatsoever, and it was pretty much no contest with a standard Corvette.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,402
From: Toronto, ON Canada
Originally posted by IZ28
Sure I'm a GM/Camaro crazy guy
Sure I'm a GM/Camaro crazy guy
Originally posted by IZ28
I'll tell you who you really gotta watch out for: MOPAR guys. Alot of them are real touchy, you gotta be careful with what you say to them as they seem to think that they have the top everything when it comes to their cars.
Some Mopars are definetly cool though.
I'll tell you who you really gotta watch out for: MOPAR guys. Alot of them are real touchy, you gotta be careful with what you say to them as they seem to think that they have the top everything when it comes to their cars.
Some Mopars are definetly cool though.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,402
From: Toronto, ON Canada
Originally posted by Z284ever
The Cobra R (or whatever it's called), will get a version of this motor....with all the requisite accoutrements to support this power. In interviews...Ford has already pegged this car at $60,000.
Will this car beat the Z06? Probably not.
The Cobra R (or whatever it's called), will get a version of this motor....with all the requisite accoutrements to support this power. In interviews...Ford has already pegged this car at $60,000.
Will this car beat the Z06? Probably not.
If the new Cobra R will be offered in a similar package (but with 500+ HP), I say that Z06 will get its heels stepped on. I will not even be surprised if this new R beats Z06 on some tests.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,072
From: Lilburn, GA, USA
Originally posted by muckz
Didn't the 2000 (or was it 2001) Cobra R hold its ground with "only" 385 HP with both the Corvette and the Viper? It cornered VERY WELL, @ 1.01 G's. Its top speed was around 175 mph. And it trapped 110 mph in the 1/4.
If the new Cobra R will be offered in a similar package (but with 500+ HP), I say that Z06 will get its heels stepped on. I will not even be surprised if this new R beats Z06 on some tests.
Didn't the 2000 (or was it 2001) Cobra R hold its ground with "only" 385 HP with both the Corvette and the Viper? It cornered VERY WELL, @ 1.01 G's. Its top speed was around 175 mph. And it trapped 110 mph in the 1/4.
If the new Cobra R will be offered in a similar package (but with 500+ HP), I say that Z06 will get its heels stepped on. I will not even be surprised if this new R beats Z06 on some tests.
Forget about it even being near a Viper!
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 750
From: Alton IL
Originally posted by SNEAKY NEIL
Yes the ZO6 did perform better and it was cheaper too! I remember that the ZO6 beat the R in every test they had and the magazine editors were wondering why someone would buy that car for all the above reasons.................and it had a stripped interior to boot.
Forget about it even being near a Viper!
Yes the ZO6 did perform better and it was cheaper too! I remember that the ZO6 beat the R in every test they had and the magazine editors were wondering why someone would buy that car for all the above reasons.................and it had a stripped interior to boot.
Forget about it even being near a Viper!
But the z06 did beat it across the board.(if i remember right)
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,029
Depends on which test you read. The 2000 Cobra R actually beat the Viper and 385 HP Vette in one magazine track test. They used professional drivers to boot. Now, I will say this, the drivers all chose the Vette for everyday drivability over the Mustang. I guess it just depends on what you're looking for in a car.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,306
From: Jersey Shore
Originally posted by PaperTarget
Depends on which test you read. The 2000 Cobra R actually beat the Viper and 385 HP Vette in one magazine track test. They used professional drivers to boot. Now, I will say this, the drivers all chose the Vette for everyday drivability over the Mustang. I guess it just depends on what you're looking for in a car.
Depends on which test you read. The 2000 Cobra R actually beat the Viper and 385 HP Vette in one magazine track test. They used professional drivers to boot. Now, I will say this, the drivers all chose the Vette for everyday drivability over the Mustang. I guess it just depends on what you're looking for in a car.
2001 Car and Driver Annual Road Test Ultimate comparisons, they have the listed the following
1/4
Z06- 13.0@112
Viper GTS ACR- 12.6@114
Cobra R- 13.0@111
Braking (70-0)
Z06-152ft
Viper GTS ACR- 186ft (without ABS)
Cobra R- 169ft
road course/mph
Z06- 1:36.3/95.4
Viper GTS ACR- 1:34.9/96.7
Cobra R- 1:38.7/92.1
they say they were driven by profesional drivers.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,647
From: At car shows and cruise nights!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by muckz
More like 3rd Gen Guy
A Third Gen guy mostly yes, but that's not all.
A good way to settle the differences between enemies - find a new, common enemy and attack them.
Not really, I speak from experience.
More like 3rd Gen Guy
A Third Gen guy mostly yes, but that's not all.
A good way to settle the differences between enemies - find a new, common enemy and attack them.
Not really, I speak from experience.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,979
I been trapped in the outlands of Canada for a week, forgive my tardiness...
"Ford is now feilding the GT as their halo which, as I recall, not only a$$packed the Z06 embarassingly, but also the Ferrari, Lambo, and even the vaunted Porsche - most of the latter costing 2-3 times what (the pricey) GT costs. And it did it with the blown 5.4 we were talking about earlier, not some 600hp future wet dream. So let's doll out the a$$packings with some discretion, OK? "
Lessee here... by my math...
$137,000 (for argument's sake... seems the dealers may have other ideas...) minus $70,000 equals $67,000.
So, Chevrolet gives us a 300-400 lbs. lighter Corvette Z06 with 500hp whist Ford gives us a ~600hp GT FOR TWICE THE PRICE.
Now, let's do some more math...
3400lbs./600hp = 5.6667 lbs./hp
3000lbs./500hp = 6 lbs./hp
Hmmm... that's not a whole lotta pounds per horsepower for $67,000 more...
And, while the the spirit has me, I would be remiss to point out that the Z06 will have 400 or so less pounds to stop in braking or fight with going around corners.
Now, the real question is this:
If Hill is sandbagging about the horsepower number, which I had a VLE at GM tell me was 500hp TWICE, then the GT is in SERIOUS DANGER of being embarrassed. One would think that a VLE isn't going to tell little old me a number that could come back to haunt Mr. Hill, would one?
So, for a little more math...
3000 lbs./5.6667hp per lbs. = 529hp at the flywheel.
30 horsepower. 30.
All it takes is 30hp for GM to ram one deep into Ford's rear flank.
"The issue isn't what the Mustang has to be worried about. Mustangs make money and they have the huge economy of scale of Ford behind them.
So what's our point? "
OVER 2,000,000 trucks and cars will share the major bits of that powertrain (engine and transmission architecture). NOBODY on the planet can do that except for GM.
"So what you're saying is that if Ford was to build a 5.4 for it's truck line, then it could share some of the parts with a blown 5.4 identical to the one used in the GT? OK, great, I'll get right on it! Oh wait, they already do, don't they? In fact, they have been offering blown 5.4's for some time now in L's and Harley-Davidson models. Oh well, HARDLY EVER see one of those on the road eh, much less an F150 or Expedition with an N/A Triton 5.4 - you know, the BEST-SELLING TRUCK IN THE WORLD at nearly 1-million/year with a few hundred thousand more SuperDutys, Vans, Navigators and Expeditions thrown in for good measure."
The number is in EXCESS of 2,000,000.
Nearly all of the GMT-900 volume (1,800,000) PLUS the Zetas, PLUS a substantia chunk of the GMT-360 + GMT-370 platforms, PLUS CTSv, PLUS the Holdens, PLUS some measure of the W platforms (if the 5.3 liter makes it's way in, as hoped), PLUS the SSR, PLUS... errr.... nah, that oughta just about do it.
Seems to me that multiplication factor is roughly 2, if I'm being generous to Ford.
Valve locks... rocker bolts... valve covers... coil packs... coil pack brackets... coils... coil pack studs... timing chains... timing gears... head bolts... throttle body actuators... accelerator pedal position sensors... valve cover gaskets... oil pumps... spark plugs... valley covers... valley cover seals... valley cover bolts... intake manifold bolts... throttle position sensors... oil filters... main bearings... rod bearings... piston pins... water pumps... water pump seals... water pump bolts... water temp sensors... knock sensors... crank triggers... crank bolts... oil pan gaskets... oil pan bolts... powertrain control modules...
I wonder how much it costs to tool up a water pump... I'd guess the tooling exceeds $1,000,000. So, if I amoritize over a year only, Corvette (or Camaro) only pay $.50 to tool it, while Mustang pays $1.00.
That's just tooling for the water pump... I didn't figure in capital...
That's on a SINGLE part. My list up there is nowhere near comprehensive...
"Ford is now feilding the GT as their halo which, as I recall, not only a$$packed the Z06 embarassingly, but also the Ferrari, Lambo, and even the vaunted Porsche - most of the latter costing 2-3 times what (the pricey) GT costs. And it did it with the blown 5.4 we were talking about earlier, not some 600hp future wet dream. So let's doll out the a$$packings with some discretion, OK? "
Lessee here... by my math...
$137,000 (for argument's sake... seems the dealers may have other ideas...) minus $70,000 equals $67,000.
So, Chevrolet gives us a 300-400 lbs. lighter Corvette Z06 with 500hp whist Ford gives us a ~600hp GT FOR TWICE THE PRICE.
Now, let's do some more math...
3400lbs./600hp = 5.6667 lbs./hp
3000lbs./500hp = 6 lbs./hp
Hmmm... that's not a whole lotta pounds per horsepower for $67,000 more...
And, while the the spirit has me, I would be remiss to point out that the Z06 will have 400 or so less pounds to stop in braking or fight with going around corners.
Now, the real question is this:
If Hill is sandbagging about the horsepower number, which I had a VLE at GM tell me was 500hp TWICE, then the GT is in SERIOUS DANGER of being embarrassed. One would think that a VLE isn't going to tell little old me a number that could come back to haunt Mr. Hill, would one?
So, for a little more math...
3000 lbs./5.6667hp per lbs. = 529hp at the flywheel.
30 horsepower. 30.
All it takes is 30hp for GM to ram one deep into Ford's rear flank.
"The issue isn't what the Mustang has to be worried about. Mustangs make money and they have the huge economy of scale of Ford behind them.
So what's our point? "
OVER 2,000,000 trucks and cars will share the major bits of that powertrain (engine and transmission architecture). NOBODY on the planet can do that except for GM.
"So what you're saying is that if Ford was to build a 5.4 for it's truck line, then it could share some of the parts with a blown 5.4 identical to the one used in the GT? OK, great, I'll get right on it! Oh wait, they already do, don't they? In fact, they have been offering blown 5.4's for some time now in L's and Harley-Davidson models. Oh well, HARDLY EVER see one of those on the road eh, much less an F150 or Expedition with an N/A Triton 5.4 - you know, the BEST-SELLING TRUCK IN THE WORLD at nearly 1-million/year with a few hundred thousand more SuperDutys, Vans, Navigators and Expeditions thrown in for good measure."
The number is in EXCESS of 2,000,000.
Nearly all of the GMT-900 volume (1,800,000) PLUS the Zetas, PLUS a substantia chunk of the GMT-360 + GMT-370 platforms, PLUS CTSv, PLUS the Holdens, PLUS some measure of the W platforms (if the 5.3 liter makes it's way in, as hoped), PLUS the SSR, PLUS... errr.... nah, that oughta just about do it.
Seems to me that multiplication factor is roughly 2, if I'm being generous to Ford.
Valve locks... rocker bolts... valve covers... coil packs... coil pack brackets... coils... coil pack studs... timing chains... timing gears... head bolts... throttle body actuators... accelerator pedal position sensors... valve cover gaskets... oil pumps... spark plugs... valley covers... valley cover seals... valley cover bolts... intake manifold bolts... throttle position sensors... oil filters... main bearings... rod bearings... piston pins... water pumps... water pump seals... water pump bolts... water temp sensors... knock sensors... crank triggers... crank bolts... oil pan gaskets... oil pan bolts... powertrain control modules...
I wonder how much it costs to tool up a water pump... I'd guess the tooling exceeds $1,000,000. So, if I amoritize over a year only, Corvette (or Camaro) only pay $.50 to tool it, while Mustang pays $1.00.
That's just tooling for the water pump... I didn't figure in capital...
That's on a SINGLE part. My list up there is nowhere near comprehensive...
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,808
From: FL/MI
Righto Pacerx!
For the sake of a hypothetical, what's the equation look like if the weight were 2900 and the power 515HP?
The LS2 is strong and "undercammed" @ .525 lift for idle considerations. No airpump required to meet feds, which is a power and weight plus.
Point is, there's room for a power between LS2 and LS7 if you cam the LS2 @.550 and use it for a car enthusiasts that will tolerate a bit more agressive idle.
For the sake of a hypothetical, what's the equation look like if the weight were 2900 and the power 515HP?
The LS2 is strong and "undercammed" @ .525 lift for idle considerations. No airpump required to meet feds, which is a power and weight plus.
Point is, there's room for a power between LS2 and LS7 if you cam the LS2 @.550 and use it for a car enthusiasts that will tolerate a bit more agressive idle.
Last edited by 1fastdog; Jul 17, 2004 at 05:54 AM.
