There was a pretty impressive display infront of the lodge at Pebble Beach. One of the cars there was a Velite, and this was the 1st time I saw it in person, and because it was near other cars, and I saw it at ground level instead of up on a turntable, I got a good perspective of it's sized and styling (it was directly behind a Chrysler 300C SRT-8.

The Velite looks fantastic, but it isn't exactly a small car. The new Mustang was about 25 yards away. I'd say the Velite is wider & about as tall and long as the new Mustang. But the Velite's proportions, while it looks great on the car, doesn't look very Camaro like. To be perfectly honest, and to paraphrase what was told to another member of the board: "It's kind of big to be a Camaro".

The GTO in reality is smaller than the Camaro. It's shorter, narrower, but taller and has a longer greenhouse. The result is the feeling the car's bigger than Camaro, though it actually isn't. The Velite is a wider and lower version of it. I can easily see the Velite as a basis of a new GTO, a Buick sporty car, a Cadillac sporty car, and even a "kick-***" Chevrolet high performance car. But I have to say, it is kinda big for a Camaro.

Under the circumstances, I can see the issue in why some people at GM may want to change the name. And it isn't related to Ste. Therese.

 

Is it the wheelbase and track that make the car too big? Or are the overhangs long, which could be tidied up?

 

The issue is that the greenhouse is too big, directly related to having too much rear seat and the roofline in that area being too tall.

Remember, Velite is a BUICK.

Camaros ARE NOT BUICKS.

While having good space in the rear of the car is a big important issue for a Buick designed to compete in the near-lux segment, having such provisions for a car that is designed to exist in the "affordable performance" and/or "ponycar" segment is the kiss of death. The car ends up looking like a sedan. Camaros ARE NOT SEDANS.

Riveras and G-body Regals ARE BUICKS. Note the roofline on a G-body Regal (Grand National) sometime and compare it to a Camaro or even a late 60's/early 70's Chevelle...

GM needs to remember:

CAMAROS ARE NOT BUICKS.

 

Your not attempting to imply that "shorter", "narrower" and "taller" are favorable adjectives to use when comparing performance cars, are you? Perhaps if Mr. Bean designed a sports car, that would be the case. The Velite is lower and wider than the GTO? I say "Great!" I'd much rather have the Camaro too large than too small. I'm a pretty large guy, and the main reason why I did not buy a Corvette is because the interior is a bit cramped for a daily driver.

The Velite is about as tall as the Mustang, but wider? I'm starting to like this car already. As long as the engine power is enough to move the added weight, I can't wait.

 

They also need to remember, though, how they got ripped for the "horrible space efficiency" (i.e. backseat smaller than a Civic's, with an exterior that is like a midsize sedan). Of course, I think the car should shrink some and still have a smallish backseat (or only a little bigger), rather than staying the same size as a 4th gen and getting a bigger back seat. Lighter weight and closer to 50/50 weight distribution wouldn't hurt (though today, 4000 lbs is sadly becoming normal, so if the Camaro can come in below 3400, we'd be sitting pretty...).

 

I could have swarn I said that the Velite looked too big to be a Camaro. We had a huge thread about wheel bases and tracks and all this.

 

I would agree that having a Buick sedan-sized Camaro would be not be good, but how much bigger is the Velite exactly? Good styling could eliminate much of the Sedan-look if it isn't unreasonably large.

 

It's not size that's the problem. Camaros are not small cars. The problem is the shape of the greenhouse and the emphasis put on rear seating.

Those things are appropriate in a Buick, but not a Camaro.

 

Im sure, like with other global chassis, that there will be different body parts for each car, especialy for Zeta. I think that the greenhouse shape, as well as rear shape is something we shouldnt really worry about.

When Regise Fillman and Kelly Rippa drove the Velite on there show, it looked pretty large. High belt line, large fenders, huge rims...it looked like a REALLY big car. Seeing the picture of the tall Tiger Woods in the car made him look like a 12 year old, and when I finaly saw the Velite up close, It looked a lot larger then a Camaro. The wheelbase is longer and wider, but its overall length and hight was about on cue with the 4th gen.

 

But aren't we talking about a semi-flexible platform that would allow for shorter (but not narrower) cars?

A 4th gen is about 18" +/- longer than a C5 and a C5 is still around 6" shorter than my 1st gen (I have all three in my driveway as we speak. )

I'd like to compare the Velite to a 4th gen in over-all dimension (which may have already been done here at some time).

 

There are things that are easy to change on a car in a platform, and things that are hard (meaning expensive).

Fenders are easy. Pillars are hard along with windshield rake and door openings. The structure behind the rear seat and the firewall are particularly difficult, especially on a convertible.

 

Hhhhhhmmmm......there is a large rear seat area in the Velite.

I just Googled the dimensions of a 4th gen vs the Velite and got a few....

Over-all length for the Velite is actually 7.2" shorter than a 4th gen.
Width is 1.5" wider than a 4th gen.
Wheelbase is a whopping 13.6" longer!

The greenhouse dimension is crucial to the Camaro looking like a Camaro and NOT a sedan.

You know, we oughta' get a list of questions ready for Scott at our BG Summit (one's that he could even possibly answer that is)...I might start another thread...

 

It also appears to have really high doors, a growing trend I'm not too fond of. I'm sure the resulting small side windows will create an aggressive look. Just the same, it's nice being able to rest your arm on the door (and see out of the car).

Velite pics:
http://www.maximum-cars.com/Cars/Car.php?carnumber=625

As for the green house, extending the rear somewhat would even out some of the proportions. If it's the first gen they are modeling, this may not create a sedan-shape afterall:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/3652/1969/69b7.jpg

The Velite hood also seems a bit short for a Camaro. By the time the front and rear styling tweaks are made, the car will be just as long as a 4th gen--something else I'm not fond of.

It'd be nice to see what GM's come up with to this point. Maybe it is more Chevelle than Camaro.

 

chevelle ? I have a bad feeling that the Camaro just isn't coming back

 

Not that I'll be buying one, because I'm a Firebird guy, however if the new car draws heavily on 1st gen styling cues then I think these proportions fall right in line with that. Passenger comfort is an issue in the 4th gens for many. It would be nice to be able to carry more than 2 peolple comfortably so we don't always have to take a "slow car" when I go out with friends. It is a shorter car over all with the wheels pushed out toward the corners. Where's the fire? Nothing to see here.