OK. I was a little concerned about the whole Velite/Zeta platform thing when I first started to read this thread. Now after thinking about it, I see a car (the Velite) that is actually smaller than a 4th gen Camaro in length, but with longer wheelbase, width and a fraction more height. Where is the problem? If anything the Velite, in "looking to be too big to be a Camaro", says more to me about the evolution of packaging since the F-body was the state of the art back in 83 than anything else.

I think you could easily carve a "Camaro" space out of the Velite by shortening the wheelbase down to, say, 108 inches a la 1st/2nd gen cars. With the advancements in passenger cell packaging, that would leave us with a car thats far more livelable than the outgoing models, yet still fit in within contemporary pony car dimensions. With a swoopy greenhouse the car could still offer that "intimate" feeling we like so much in our favourite pony car without being claustrophobic. The car doesn't have to be Intrepid- roomy to be comfortable, or useable. Whether you shorten the overhangs or not you still get a tidier package than the old car which was no stranger to big overhangs anyway.

I realize that it isn't as simple as this post makes it out to be but a platform with variable length wheelbase dimensions isn't rocket science - Holden has that now and I think I read somewhere that Zeta is to be a flexible multi-wheelbase platform as well. So... throw in some SS and (Camaro) heritage styling cues/sheetmetal that ultimately says Camaro, if you will, an LS2/6speed combo, some nice wheels, true duals and call it a day.

Oh yeah, almost forgot, stamp that Camaro name on it's rear end (that's a BIG one to leave out:-). Now we're done.

 

I have to agree with you!

The longer wheelbase will do two things - improve the ride and cut down those overhangs.

 

DING! DING! DING!

We have a winner! Somebody make sure Chevrolet gets a copy of that paragraph right there!

 

The issue was not about the car's length or greenhouse. It's that humoungous wheelbase and width. Velite is one wide mother.

Perhaps it's something that takes some getting used to.

It's just seeing Velite in pictures and thinking "Camaro", and then seeing it in real life with other normally proportioned cars around it makes you automatically think "Umm.... that's kind of big to be a Camaro".

I can almost guaranty that when anyone here 1st lays eyes on the car with other cars around, that's the exact reaction your mind will have.

 

I think that it's good to voice concerns like the ones in this thread NOW....versus a year from now.

 

Yep, Velite IS too big. The whole reason it's too big is the damned rear seat. It looks even bigger than it is because of the greenhouse. For a Camaro, lose the extra length in the REAR SEATS and then keep the fastback styling the last three generations of the car were known for. Yeah, it's gonna be tight, and the folks in the back are going to be bonking their heads on the roof... SO WHAT?!?

If you package protect for a super-roomy rearseat you turn the car into a CHEVELLE and not a CAMARO. Camaros are 2+2 cars... that means you, your babe, and two people who are your kids or people you don't like that much anyway...

Want bigger rear seats? Buy a Velite or a GTO or a Monte Carlo.

DO NOT compromise the look of the car for packaging two more 80 year olds in the back of a Buick!

KEEP THE WIDTH! Wide=good. Park a 4th gen next to a Mudstain and look at the difference with the cars. The Camaro is wider and not as upright, WHICH IS GOOD.

 

Pacer, on a scale of 1 to 10.....10 being cosmic certaintude....how would you rate the chances of Chevy allowing it's car to be compromised in this way...for Buick?

 

They can leave it the back seats the way they are if the weight of the car can come in at 3500 lbs. I just dont want the car to be a porker like my GTO is.

 

OK, so other than wheelbase, which can be changed(?) the issue is width. For some perspective I did some additional checking around. Using data from the last generation B-body which we can all agree on as being not too small - I would think and also the 04 monte which is considered a "large" coupe:

96 Impala/Caprice:
Wheelbase 115.9
Length 214.1
Width 77.5
Height 55.7

04 Monte Carlo:
Wheelbase 110.5
Length 197.9
Width 72.3
Height 55.2

Now, the data already collected:

Mustang:
wheelbase: 107.1
length: 187.6
width: 72.1
height: 54.5

Velite:
wheelbase: 114.8
length: 185.7
width: 75.6
height: 51.9

4th gen Camaro
wheelbase: 101.1
length: 193.5
width: 74.1
height: 51.3

So, what do we get from all of this: The 4th gen Camaro was a fairly large, wide car with a short wheelbase, for all intents and purposes, just as large as a Monte. The Velite is large, wide car (but not the widest to have graced the road) with a long wheelbase that's 8 inches shorter than a 4th gen. Having not seen the car in person, is an inch and a half really that much? Maybe, on a car that's so much shorter. Still as someone else posted, the STS is 4 inches wider than a CTS and they are both built on the same platform.

With Zeta being every bit as flexible as Sigma, I don't believe there is any reason to think that the platform can't be modified to suit many roles for any given division. The G6 sedan uses the Malibu Maxx version of Epsilon as it's starting point, giving a roomier sedan than the "regular" Malibu, so is there really a problem?

 

I see what you are saying, but it should give you a hint as to how big (deceptively or otherwise) when you realize the wheelbase is just a finger's width shorter (about an inch) than the Chevrolet Caprice! Or the fact that it's within 2" of the already wide Chevrolet Caprice!

Now, I actually took time to look up Velite's dimensions and found out that at least part of it's size is deceptive. But I had exactly the 1st reaction that anyone else who sees that width & wheelbase on a car that small is going to have. Those people are also going to be considering Mustangs.

Name one complaint and misconception that plagued the 4th gen F-bodies in the end? "They were too big & fuel hungry". GM's going to have to advertize their little fannies off to counter this one.

The Velite is a great looking car, and I can easily see a "Camaro" body (and greenhouse) on the car. Also, when you look up the length, it's seems to be in definate ponycar territory.

But this car, in Velite trim or shortened for a Camaro, is going to take alot of getting used to if the Velite's proportions (width & wheelbase) are what we are getting.

 

I like the current trend to have a longer wheelbase and shorter overhang. The new Vette, GTO even the 300C has a long wheelbase for its overall size. I like the way the cars overall stance looks.

 

I agree completely with regards to the realization that the Velite being "small" is also almost as large as the B-body Caprice in probaly all dimensions but overall length. Modern packaging can really make inroads insofar as changing perceptions of what exactly a big car is and can be.

I can also see a Camaro spawned from the Velite's underpinnings but it would need some paring and slashing, most definitely in the wheelbase and width dimensions. I'm just saying that to be more user-friendly and intimate don't have to be mutually exclusive - in a Camaro.

About the popular misconceptions, the one dealing with size maybe handled through de-emphasizing the width by using sheetmetal lacking the very curved surfaces esp. in the quarter panels that flared out from the pillar giving the rear end a wide look, as was used in te 4th gen and C5 Vette. A more upright windshield and seating/driving position a la Mustang and lighter effort/variable effort steering may also alleviate that ponderous feeling. I think GM can do all and more of this without "selling out" what makes a Camaro right.

The notion of V-8 gas hunger could be tougher one with a whole generation and a half of kids growing up with the notion that a V-8 automatically means poor mileage and is therefore somehow bad. That just isn't so any more. I came of age in the eighties and for me, it just doesn't get any better than a V-8 and I'd really rather have one, but I have friends, same age, who would beg to disagree.

It's all in the marketing and re-education in getting the message out there. You can't tell me that the manufacturers can't do it. They have manipulated the public for years regarding the benefits of FWD versus RWD and most recently they have been hugley successful at putting people into big trucks and ever bigger SUVs - because they're better(?). No, they're just more profitable.

 

Here's some additional info for the first gen. FWIW

Wheelbase..........108.0 in
Track, F/R..........59.6/59.5 in
Length..........186.0 in
Width..........72.3 in
Height..........51.1 in
Ground clearance..........5.1 in
Curb weight..........3368 lb

 

I'm actually going to have to agree with Big Al on this one. This board always bitches about the 4th gen having too much overhang and not enough wheelbase...back seat is too small. Well...problem fixed with the Velite. Who cares about it being an extra 1 1/2" wider. You know how big that is? Barely noticable. It might change the greenhouse or whatever, but many of you were saying thats exactly what the 4th gen needed. It needed to feel bigger instead of feeling small in an actually "big" car. This is exactly what will help the Camaro sell (even though their not going for huge sales #'s here, we're assuming). Not to mention, they can still change bits and peices about the car to give it more of a Camaro feel and look. This is a classic example of people wanting change but when it comes all the sudden they renig.

 

Exactly to what point is width measured? IOW, to the extents of the mirrors or the body proper?