305fan

I could live with a forced induction V6 Trans Am (remember the 89 TTA?) but only RWD. And substainly body work changes from the Camaro.

No rebadged, same power trains/suspension

FWD or AWD is totally out of character.

RussStang

With each passing year Pontiac is becoming a sorrier and sorrier brand. Guess that is what happens when you have no specific direction.

Z284ever

If Pontiac ever wants to salvage a performance image, I think it's time to leave it's current "enthusiasts" behind. They have nothing to offer Pontiac but ruin. They are vocal, yet don't buy the cars that they scream for, even when Pontiac offers them.

Look at the past four years. Pontiac has gotten a GTO, an excellent V8 powered GP GXP, the ALL NEW Solstice and Solstice GXP, a G6 convertible and coupe, (the coupe BTW, could be had with a stick until slow demand killed it). And now Pontiac is getting the G8 and perhaps the G8 ST.

I mean WTF? Sure, Pontiac has become abit discombobulated regarding it's own focus, but it's obvious that "Pontiac enthusiasts" don't buy enough cars or influence enough people to buy enough cars to make a difference. Time to move on with Pontiac and re-image it. That, or slowly kill it.

RussStang

The problem I see with selling Pontiac as an enthusiast brand with the cars you mentioned is that many of those attempts are recieved as half-assed by the public. The GTO looked good on paper, but we all know the kind of reception it recieved due to it's extremely bland styling. Handing out G6s on Oprah and then trying to market them as some kind of fwd performance car was probably a bad idea too. There are not too many performance cars that carry the girl car stigma that end up doing to well in the end. Making a coupe version of the G6 helped, but sticking a kind of crappy 6 speed from a Saab in there was just a bandaid. Seemed sort of like an afterthought. The Sky is a great looking car, and it is nice that if you want to shell out the dollars you can get a turbocharged one, but it just doesn't feel as performance oriented as a Miata. Someone can pull out lap times all they want, the Sky doesn't feel as lively. Probably because it is carrying around a few extra hundred pounds. The G8 sounds great, but you can't get a stick at all in it. Not even in the v8 model. Not exactly a call to the enthusiast.

It seems like GM has stuck Pontiac with a hodge podge of cobbled up "performance cars" to give the brand some kind of direction, without actually investing the time really necessary to make the entire brand a true competitive force to be reckoned with. If it is Pontiac's destiny to languish on the vine, I don't see what need there is for the brand any longer.

*edit- replace every mention of Sky with Solstice. My dumbass wasn't thinking.

305fan

did this change? I beleive the 6 speed manual is not available right off the bat...but it's coming, right??

Last of a Breed

From what I've read on some G8 boards, the manual is coming this later this year ( '09 G8's start production in March.) And supposedly manual only comes in the GXP model. Again, until an official statement from GM, we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

TA76

Well maybe some but I do purchase, I still have my 02 WS6 TA which I purchased new. Now, I really like the new Camaro but honestly I'm a Firebird guy at heart. The new Camaro will have to blow my socks off if I am to trade in my mint 02 TA (I'm waiting to see and drive one in person). If Pontiac had a 2010 TA, a purchase would be a foregone conclusion. With no new TA and if I were to replace the 02, a used Vette might get the nod over a new Camaro.

Last of a Breed

I agree. I'm liking the G8 as I see it as a step in the right direction, but other than Solstice Pontiac does not offer any real performance/sporty cars. The G6 is a sorry attempt at a performance car, and the G5 is a rebadge that doesn't even offer what the Cobalt offers.


What other cars does Pontiac offer that us enthusiasts can get excited about? The GTO "failure" I don't necessarily buy, as it was a stop gap solution with an annual run of 18k units. Plus, the dealer mark ups hurt it as well.

Basically, if Pontiac offered a 2+2 coupe in the vein of the G8 styling that was lighter, I'd think Pontiac would have a huge hit.

Plague

This is exactly what I think Pontiac won't get since it is trying to have brand separation, but at the same time it causes problems with overlap and the Camaro.

Chevy has the vette, getting the camaro, a v8 impala, a v8 TBSS, a tubro cobalt, turbo hhr etc. Chevy has more performance than Pontiac. This actually looks like Pontiac is going to have its image into something else.

Robert_Nashville

Maybe I've just been "out of the loop" for a while but frankly, I don't understand why "no Firebird" is a surprise to anyone?

Did anyone here actually think there was still a chance of one (at least in the near-term)???

Last of a Breed

Personally, I know that Pontiac wouldn't be getting a "Firebird"
based off of Camaro. And even though it didn't have to be named Firebird, I would like to think Pontiac would get an Alpha coupe to receive a performance car. Now that's not so sure from what I gather here and other places.

It'd just be nice for Pontiac to receive some great product in the near future.

90rocz

It said no "Camaro variant", maybe GM will take up a Firebird, someday soon, on its own platform, in a true "Pontiac" direction.
Like the Poncho guys have been begging them to.

guionM

You pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Pontiac enthusiasts have had a great run. Their Firebird had far more body updates and variations than Camaro, even had a tuner version (Firehawk). They had the only RWD performance coupe GM made since 2002. They have America's only RWD sports car that costs less than a Corvette. They had the only mid-size coupe with a stick at GM. There's a GXP Solstice with a 4 banger that runs with Corvettes of not too long ago. There was perhaps the best (as in capable) FWD performance car ever made in the US (Grand Prix GXP). Now you have what's essentially a world class rear drive performance sedan (the G8) and even an El Camino that Chevrolet couldn't get. The G6 is still GM's 2nd best selling car overall.

Yet, despite all this, it seems they are the first ones to complain that Pontiac is dead, doesn't have anything for the enthusiasts, or is otherwise ready for the trash heap of automotive history.

Performance is normally no more than 10% of the volume of a vehicle line. Building an entire vehicle line based on just enthusiasts and performance doesn't pay the bills. It's the desireability of regular and base models to everyday buyers that makes a brand successful. that's a lesson that many hardcore Camaro fans don't quite get, but seemingly most Pontiac fans are completely oblivious to. Anyone who says that focus on creating the best base and regular models aren't important next to performance is living some fantasy.

Pontiac has has some remarkable vehicles the past 4 years. Even right now as we speak, Pontiac drips with performance throughout their entire lineup.G8 GT, Solstice GXP, G6 GXP. Pontiac even has a GXP crossover that for it's market is pretty impressive. Pontiac has the ONLY 350+ V8 for 30K or less. The only direct injected, turbo 4 (though shared with Saturn's Sky).

Personally, I can't name another brand, US or foreign, that has so much performance oriented hardware in it's showroom.

If that's not enough, then maybe it's time for Pontiac to die.

Seems many enthusiasts seem to want that.

How many of them have ACTUALLY bought Pontiac's latest performance vehicles???

(in a devils advocate mood today )

Slappy3243

Good post overall. And I ACTUALLY did buy one of Pontiac's latest performance vehicles. I love my GTO.

Plague

I think that you are missing the fact that the GTO was canceled. Takes 2 years to get a replacement (if you call the G8 that, there isn't a replacement if you don't) and everything else is a rebadge. Every GXP model has a cousin right now. How good is it as a performance division if all the performance is duplicated with other brands? The GTO may have had a larger shelf life if it didn't look bland and had a V6 to carry sales. Performance needs more that track times, it needs good looks. I can see why not many people bought it and why it was canceled.

Also remember, the G8 probably isn't here if they decided to bring it later. With the new CAFE, it would likely have been canceled (along with the Zeta Impala).

Actually, I would go with Chevy on this. While it doesn't have a match for the G8 GT or the Solstice, everything else is literally a rebadge. But, Chevy does have performance that Pontiac does not.

Cobalt SS, HHR SS, TB SS, Corvette, and a Camaro. The way I see it, Pontiac should be gone. Bring over the G8 GT (middle east Chevy Lumina) and the Solstice and you would be done.