Oh ok, I took it completely differently.

Not trying to brag, because I know a lot of you guys have faster cars than I do, but it doesn't matter too much to me which one posts faster stock times considering I can lay waste to either car.

Also considering these cars seem to be so close in performance, I think it will be the car with the greatest mod potential that will go down as the best performer. That's how we'll remember them years from now.

 

That's what I'm talking about, passing the cost onto the consumer. With the way these cars are selling, they could easily make a profit off of a gear option. There's really not much R&D that goes into a set of gears. They could even team up with SLP or another company like they did before. SLP produced the parts and they were just slapped on the Camaro SS. The same thing could be done with the 5th Gen. With that said, there would be little to no R&D required by GM and little to no investment needing to be made to make, for example, another SLP SS.

 

Forgive me for not going back through a couple thousand posts to see if you've already said so, but why do you think it wouldn't cost them anything?

EDIT: heh, loaded this page and then came back and posted without checking for newer posts. I see your answer above.

EDIT 2: however, note that the additional cost also needs to cover validation, fuel economy testing, crash testing... there's a hefty up-front investment that has to be made. It might be zero cost in the long run, but GM still needs to be conscious of their short-term finances too.

 

Exactly. What is GM's motivation to spend the money, right now?? The Camaro is already selling great. They have new options coming for the 2011MY, and the Vert will be coming out.

Thus, the question ends up being, is it worth the investment to try to eek out a tenth......... but hurt our fuel economy at the same time?? For what?? Bragging rights on a few enthusiast forums?? People who already own your product, or are planning to own your product??

For now, GM has to be concerned with the big picture, which is the IPO. They need to get the monkey off of their back, so to speak. That is done by showing healthy and consistant profits. A new gear ratio in the Camaro is going to accomplish nothing, towards this goal.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and I may be wrong.

 

The real race is for sales and this 5th Gen Camaro is doing well in that area. Performance is nice and makes for great bench and magazine racing but how much does it move the cars out of the showroom. History has shown in the pony car wars that the quickest/fastest/most powerful isn't always the one selling the most.

As for performance and engaging in the one-upmanship GM has a lot of options for this Camaro. I think we forget sometimes because we have followed the development of this car for so many years but in reality it's only been in production for a year. GM will continue to refine this car. Changes will be made. Who knows what kind and how extensive but the car will change.

Simple question remains; Does GM need to address performance because of this new 5.0? The races we have seen so far and tests give the GT an edge but the SS isn't being blown away. Most runs so far seem to fall well within a driver’s race. One could say from GM's perspective cashing the buyers’ checks that if it ain't broke.....

 

LMAO @ highway pull king. You have to look at the details!!! The Mustang driver has to shift into fourth and is at the bottom of that gear just before getting to 100mph. The LS3 is at the top of third and in the meat of its powerband when it gets to 100mph. That extra shift and moments in the lower part of the power band costs time.

 

The answer is no. Other things need attention. I see its hard for the self-righteous ones to understand but a tenth or two is nothing in the long run.

 

i dont really think new gear options are what GM is looking for in the camaro. Right now its about the total package which includes FUEL ECONOMY and theres a reason why the camaro still has to use a transmission with 2 OVERDRIVES to achieve the mileage that it does. anyways, its nice that the mustang is at least keeping up (and in this case is BEATING the camaro) finally. You guys shouldnt be so mad about it though its only a couple tenths and a (most likely/ultimately) couple mphs. In a street race, if you punch the gas first, you make up roughly 1/2 second. so now you guys just have to cheat a little to keep up with those mustang boys

 

A couple of things.

The rear gear options do not necessarily have to adversely affect gas mileage. If they are made optional on the manual transmission only, as they are on the Mustang, then in most situations (including the EPA test) the driver should be able to simply select a higher gear and maintain a similar rpm for a given speed. There will be some transition points and this will depend on what gear is chosen, but this can be worked out in some spreadsheets in short order. I hope GM has already done so.

If you notice, the manual transmission Mustang is rated at 17/29mpg regardless of whether it has 3.31, 3.55, or 3.73 gears.

Second, it is interesting to see everyone talk about the Mustang as if it has already proven itself faster than the Camaro. Yes, we have seen a 12.8 second pass, but we have also yet to see a mph higher than the 110.x of the Camaro. We have now also seen a 13.2@109mph from Car and Driver. Not to mention the amazing passes of 12.5x and 12.6x that we have seen from stock Camaro's. I think we will see some from stock Mustangs as well. All of that adds up to two very equal cars though.

If the Mustang was trapping 112 or 113mph (what many Ford faithful were hoping for) it would be a different story, but right now, the two look to be neck and neck. A drivers race. And thats an "optional" 3.73 geared Mustang we are talking about too.

I agree that speed and power may not be where the Camaro needs to focus, but handling (or the lack thereof) is certainly where it needs to focus. Driving dynamics are where the Mustang is eating the Camaro's lunch and this is where much of a drivers enjoyment comes from. THIS IS WHAT SELLS CARS. A "performance package" that addressed turn-in, steering feel, understeer, and corner exit acceleration (through gears) would be a step towards the Camaro winning comparisons both in magazines and in the butts and hearts of buyers. Part or all of this package could then become standard in the future, much like the Mustang did from 10' to 11'.

Those wanting interior upgrades are fooling themselves I think. You will not see an interior refresh until the car is atleast 2-3 model years old (so 2011 or 2012).

 

the mustang already has a trap speed of 110.8 which is a tick faster than the best trap speed the mags have gotten for the camaro. But either way, i dont see this car trapping that much faster than the camaro since it makes about 14less HP but weighs 240lbs less. That extra weight makes the camaro seem lethargic in the tossability department (according to my test drives vs 2010 mustang) which is obviously going to be the glaring issue between these two in heads up tests.

 

Besides the other reasons mentioned, there are complex and arcane EPA rules that may cause a different axle ratio to negatively affect the EPA (and thus CAFE) numbers.

 

because the article says it did. and on the same press meeting the details are there.

 

the car and driver test was done with a base car, the weight and price tell that.

 

GM must respond to both the 2011 V6 and V8 Mustang salvos from Ford. Consumer opinions of Ford are shifting in a very positive direction. However, the public's perception of GM is still generally static. Ford is winning accolades hand over fist between not using govt money to stay alive, MT COTY Fusion, High quality scores on JD Power and Consumer's Digest, generally better interiors, and now both their performance cars might out-muscle GM's at their principal purpose for being: 0-60 and 1/4 mile drags. Even many die-hard GM fans are starting to look closer at archrival Ford's products. GM has to act - they cannot afford to do nothing and allow public perception of it's muscle cars to be the losers in interior avant-garde, or the decades-old stoplight grand-prix.

 

That's my feeling as well. As someone stated a few posts earlier, gears to not alway translate into lower EPA estimates. The Mustang is rated at the same city/highway for all manual cars regarless of the gear. Also, initial costs of added a gear option would be almost non-existant in the grand scheme of things. It would give the Camaro more magazine headlines and further the public perception of GM having a superior product in the pony car segment.

To everyone who thinks I'm somehow sour about the Camaro potentially being slower than the Mustang, you may have missed my earlier posts. Am I a Chevy fan? Yes. Am I a Camaro fan? Yes. Do I own a Camaro? Yes. Do I own a 5th Gen? No. Do I plan on it? No. I have simply stated how easy it would be for Chevy to remain on top performance wise, and how they could do it. Gears do not always equal a change in gas mileage, the new Mustang proves that. They will, however, lower their 0-60 and 1/4 mile times.