It's Official: 2011 Ford Mustang GT has 5.0-liter V8
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From: Melbourne, Australia
I think one of the most alluring features of Camaro is it's interior design although the material quality could be significantly improved as well as a few graphics... I do think that GM hit the bullseye with the Camaro's design overall. By comparison, the Mustang looks like a sad, sad car next to the stylish, aggressive and well proportioned Camaro. But that's just my humble opinion.
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From: Panhandle of West Virginia
I saw in the new MM&FF that Evan Smith was brought in by Ford and ran the new GT 36 times at the strip with engineers present. He was very impressed by the car but could not release specific times.
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Are you referring to material quality or just dash design? The irony I see in your wish is that the G8 interior is what is considered by many to be its weakest link - dash is bland... last decade's layout.
I think one of the most alluring features of Camaro is it's interior design although the material quality could be significantly improved as well as a few graphics... I do think that GM hit the bullseye with the Camaro's design overall. By comparison, the Mustang looks like a sad, sad car next to the stylish, aggressive and well proportioned Camaro. But that's just my humble opinion.
I think one of the most alluring features of Camaro is it's interior design although the material quality could be significantly improved as well as a few graphics... I do think that GM hit the bullseye with the Camaro's design overall. By comparison, the Mustang looks like a sad, sad car next to the stylish, aggressive and well proportioned Camaro. But that's just my humble opinion.
Imo, the problems you've mentioned with the G8's interior are 10x worse in the camaro.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: FL/MI
I'm not sure how any clean sheet design from either Camaro or Mustang would succeed with the intended market at this place and time.
Certain design cues are insisted on by the intenders.
I tend to think the exterior of the '11 'stang is a refresh at best. Not a horrible play. It's what works.
All new? Please...
Just another tweak on a 1967. All new.... yeah right. In what universe where people have eyes and shape recognition can one say it's "all new"?
It might be appeaing to a Mustang fan. Certainly. That's the damn idea that Ford is banking on.
Forward looking and reach are not the school of design that moves these types of cars.
Just as Corvette has it's customer dictated design language, so does the beloved cars in the class we speak on.
GM has taken a lot more chances on what is their take on what defines a personal coupe looks like than Ford has.
Ford seems to be locked on the '67 up ...but not inclusive of Foxbodies.
Certain design cues are insisted on by the intenders.
I tend to think the exterior of the '11 'stang is a refresh at best. Not a horrible play. It's what works.
All new? Please...
Just another tweak on a 1967. All new.... yeah right. In what universe where people have eyes and shape recognition can one say it's "all new"?
It might be appeaing to a Mustang fan. Certainly. That's the damn idea that Ford is banking on.
Forward looking and reach are not the school of design that moves these types of cars.
Just as Corvette has it's customer dictated design language, so does the beloved cars in the class we speak on.
GM has taken a lot more chances on what is their take on what defines a personal coupe looks like than Ford has.
Ford seems to be locked on the '67 up ...but not inclusive of Foxbodies.
Last edited by 1fastdog; Jan 3, 2010 at 01:35 PM.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Snow Belt, PA
I agree with what you say, but I don't feel you are anywhere close to the reasons.
Mustang does absolutely nothing for you because there is something like 1 million of the current design on the streets already, and the new Mustang is simply a variation of the 2004-2009 version. That's it.
When the Mustang hit the streets in 2004, it sold 141,907 cars.
GM expects to sell no more than 60,00 Camaros this model year.
As of December 1st, Ford sold 60,000 Mustangs, and it was one of the worst sales years in Mustang history.
Point is that Camaro benefits from a new design as Mustang did in 2004 that will get old as soon as it's been out a few years and we see plenty of them on the streets. Mustang's design (though refreshed) has been around 6 years. Camaro's has been around 8 months.
As with every single car design in automotive history (even ones that eventually became classics), all cars... and I mean ALL cars reach a point where their looks become yesterday's news, the public's attention goes elsewhere, and the design's sent to the garbage heap in favor of another one which (in the case of successful designs) usually doesn't quite measure up.
The coupe marketplace is very fickled and design oriented.
The latest fashion is often the latest "must have".
Mustang had that position in 2004-2005.
Camaro has it today.
Ford's Mustang is much closer to an all new design than Camaro is.
FWIW:
Although I'll give Camaro some very serious props on it's styling (at least outside, anyway), I wouldn't call Mustang's current design passionless or stirs no emotion. The new Mustang looks quite aggressive, and stylish.
It's just that Camaro's is so over the top, and is pulled off so well, it has the capacity to make any car parked next to it (save for maybe the very attractive looking Dodge Challenger) dissappear.
Mustang does absolutely nothing for you because there is something like 1 million of the current design on the streets already, and the new Mustang is simply a variation of the 2004-2009 version. That's it.
When the Mustang hit the streets in 2004, it sold 141,907 cars.
GM expects to sell no more than 60,00 Camaros this model year.
As of December 1st, Ford sold 60,000 Mustangs, and it was one of the worst sales years in Mustang history.
Point is that Camaro benefits from a new design as Mustang did in 2004 that will get old as soon as it's been out a few years and we see plenty of them on the streets. Mustang's design (though refreshed) has been around 6 years. Camaro's has been around 8 months.
As with every single car design in automotive history (even ones that eventually became classics), all cars... and I mean ALL cars reach a point where their looks become yesterday's news, the public's attention goes elsewhere, and the design's sent to the garbage heap in favor of another one which (in the case of successful designs) usually doesn't quite measure up.
The coupe marketplace is very fickled and design oriented.
The latest fashion is often the latest "must have".
Mustang had that position in 2004-2005.
Camaro has it today.
Ford's Mustang is much closer to an all new design than Camaro is.
FWIW:
Although I'll give Camaro some very serious props on it's styling (at least outside, anyway), I wouldn't call Mustang's current design passionless or stirs no emotion. The new Mustang looks quite aggressive, and stylish.
It's just that Camaro's is so over the top, and is pulled off so well, it has the capacity to make any car parked next to it (save for maybe the very attractive looking Dodge Challenger) dissappear.
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Joined: Jun 1999
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From: OR
So why does the Camaro have to be so completely hobbled?
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Joined: Apr 2001
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From: USA
The Camaro's interior suffers in perceived quality no actual quality. The materials are fine..but the design is akward and flakey. The speedometer is impossible to use, the center IP is a a disaster. I don't like all the black plastic because it scratches and shows dirt worse than any other color. The G8 interior is fine unless you are coming from a GTO, which has one of the best interiors of recent times.
I haven't spent enough time in either cars interior to comment on the materials. I was talking about the dash design. The camaro's dash doesn't even look like its from this decade. They went too retro with the interior which was a big mistake imo. So not only does it come off as very old and odd looking, it manages to come off as very bland in some areas as well.
Imo, the problems you've mentioned with the G8's interior are 10x worse in the camaro.
Imo, the problems you've mentioned with the G8's interior are 10x worse in the camaro.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,977
From: SeVa
sorta on topic again.... I see the new M6 in the '11 GT is more or less a performance piece with only a single overdrive. 4th is 1.32 (IIRC) 5th is 1.00 and 6th is O.D (didn't check the ratio, but I imagine its not to far off of the current O.D in the M5.
I like how they combined the M6 with a standard 3.31 final drive for some drive line effciency improvement. I read an article some time ago and they dyno'd a GT500 before and after a gear change. going from a 3.31 to a 3.73 sucked up around 30hp but was compensated by a big increase in torque.
I like how they combined the M6 with a standard 3.31 final drive for some drive line effciency improvement. I read an article some time ago and they dyno'd a GT500 before and after a gear change. going from a 3.31 to a 3.73 sucked up around 30hp but was compensated by a big increase in torque.
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 808
From: manassas, VA
I agree with that. The camaro interior has no coherenecy in the design. Square and rectangles some more rounded in the corners than others, combined with some circles and triangles thrown in for fun. Not a single line or edge lines up with anything else. Then add some guages in the hardest spot in the interior to be taking your eyes to while driving. And a sega gensis controller for the HVAC with a bumper car steering wheel.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,217
From: Greenville, SC
sorta on topic again.... I see the new M6 in the '11 GT is more or less a performance piece with only a single overdrive. 4th is 1.32 (IIRC) 5th is 1.00 and 6th is O.D (didn't check the ratio, but I imagine its not to far off of the current O.D in the M5.
I like how they combined the M6 with a standard 3.31 final drive for some drive line effciency improvement. I read an article some time ago and they dyno'd a GT500 before and after a gear change. going from a 3.31 to a 3.73 sucked up around 30hp but was compensated by a big increase in torque.
I like how they combined the M6 with a standard 3.31 final drive for some drive line effciency improvement. I read an article some time ago and they dyno'd a GT500 before and after a gear change. going from a 3.31 to a 3.73 sucked up around 30hp but was compensated by a big increase in torque.
Think about it.
Mustang: 412hp/390tq in a 3,600lbs. package with 235 wide tires on 18" wheels and 11.5" brakes front, 11.8" brakes rear = 25mpg highway.
Camaro: 426hp/420tq in a 3,850lbs. package with 245/275 wide tires on 20" wheels and 14" brakes front, 14.4" brakes rear = 24mpg highway.
I haven't run the numbers, but I am thinking gearing will favor (in terms of gas mileage) the Camaro despite its lower final drive ratio becaue of its larger diameter tires. However, credit Chevy for giving the Camaro a torquey enough motor to allow for this gearing.
So when it comes to power and gas mileage, good job Chevy.......or maybe just bad job Ford.
When it comes to power per liter and overall car weight, good job Ford.