Though I agree with you about the tail end.....Can you name a lighterweight, V8, 4 passenger, regular production sports coupe that has that much power.

Otherwise, that "Lightweight is king in a pereformance car" line is just alot of wishful thinking.... and that's being polite.

Simply say there's no free rides. 500+ horsepower, rear wheel drive, and 4 passengers ain't gonna happen in a "light weight" car.



You almost seem surprised at this!

 

For the record (and I think it was mentioned already) supercharged cars can range all over the place in performance depending on air temp and computer programing.

Taking a blown Z28 against a blown GT500, while intresting and makes for good thread debates, is far for certain in outcome until someone takes the 2 out in an identical enviroment at the same time.

On paper, the GT500 might be quicker, but might more aggressively retard performance when the engine or the enviroment gets warm.... or perhaps the Z28 might have more aggressive gearing where it would seem quicker, but it's intercooler might be less efficient than the GT500's.

At the moment, I'd say that both are too close to call.

 

I agree, there's no way in hell it would be under $40k (if for no other reason than the GT500 is much more than that).

But your statement about the engines really has nothing to do with it. The base, $22k Camaro LS uses the same engine as the $35k - $55k CTS.

 

Kudos to Ford. They have addressed the big issues facing the Mustang and gone on the offensive. They are not sitting back waiting for the competition to catch them. I'm impressed by all of their 2011 Mustang updates. Subjective looks aside it's hard to argue with what Ford has done to systematically upgrade the power and performance of all three lines. I'm going to be very curious to see how these changes affect sales.

With over 100lbs off the nose I'm sure the 2011 GT500 feels like a completely new car from the 2010 model.

As for Z/28 comparisons until the car is available it’s almost irrelevant to even speculate.

 

I understand what you are saying, except for one thing........... the LSA is not a base, "standard" engine. It is the hoity toity, high performance Cadillac engine.

If they made a Z28, that the only basic difference was the luxury features, and 2 doors (meaning that it would handle just as well, as everyone here seems to think)............ and made it $20K less than a CTSV.......... as a CTSV customer, I would be pissed.

Standard, run of the mill CTS, having the same engine as standard, run of the mill Camaro............ not so big of a deal.

 

Actually, as the consumate people watcher, I am not surprised at all. It is just very interesting to watch this all conspire.

Its kind of like watching a Mustang thread, on GMI. They always start with the usual info on the improvements, and predictions from the Ford people.......... and the GM people who are not too biased. However, by page 2, the pissing and moaning starts to happen. By page 5, we are right down to misinformation on both sides, and borderline trollage. By page 10, the real fights and insults have begun.......... and this continues till about page 18.......... where the thread starts to die out. LOL

Yet I always read them, shake my head and laugh......... and maybe get a few jabs in.

It is just hilarious to watch this same pattern, over and over.

 

Dodge took the drivetrain out of their $85K Viper and put it in a $40K pickup.

There's nuthin special about the LSA/TR-6060 that mandates the pricing on a Camaro application. If GM wants to STICK IT to Ford, they can easily sell a low $40K Camaro Z/28 to undercut the $55K GT500 and take sales from the upcoming Boss 302 too with superior straight line performance.

 

What GT500 costs $55K???

 

You're right in that the LSA isn't the base engine like the LS3 but it also isn't
as expensive as the LS7 or LS9.
There is no doubt that GM could make money on a Camaro with the LSA if the car was priced near or at that of the GT500.

As for the CTS-V; I highly doubt any CTS-V owner or perspective client would care or even notice if the LSA was shared with a Camaro. In fact a quick glance at the Cadillac website shows no mention of the letters L S A.

I think the key to the CTS-V's handling is the magnetic ride control and that could be an option for the Camaro especially if GM is charging a premium for it.

 

I really haven't seen that in this thread. There are plenty of people who are excited by the GT500. And while there are some that question the extent of the improvement and accomplishment, I've not seen any significant trollage.

Sure there are a couple of people questioning the weight reduction, and the health of the Ford horses. But it's been respectful, I think, and not ad hominem. In fact, I think I've seen at least as much criticism of the Camaro as the Mustang in this thread.

 

I think you mean E63? MT compared the CTS-V and E63.

 

Minor point; the CTS-V is nearly the same weight as the E63 and a bit lighter than the XFR. It's heavier than the M5, but I'll bet BMW is fixing that (has anyone looked at what a porker the new 5 is -- it gains something like 200 pounds! -- fortunately, it will have new turbos to hide the weight -- right Charlie? )

We don't know what a putative S/C Camaro would weigh -- probably a bit over 4000 pounds, which would make it 200 up on the GT500, with essentially identical power ratings, if the Camaro gets the same engine that's in the CTS-V.

It'll be interesting to see.

 

Wow. If there is no doubt they could easily do it - and make money - why on earth hasn't GM already done it? Its easy and makes money....seems like a no-brainer.

 

I am no insider, but I do not think we are getting a 550hp Z-28 for less than 40,000 dollars. Camaro's best bet might be hoping that some of the C7's weight saving tech can trickle down (albeit watered down somewhat) so that the next Camaro can shed some pounds and find a better way to fight Mustang than relying on big horsepower.

One other observation: Instead of wanting Camaro to be a CTS-V, or wanting it to have CTS-V power and handling...why not just buy a CTS-V? It's a great car.

 

Agreed, but don't forget that the CTS-V is 300-400 pounds heavier than the GT500 and competes with or beats it on the track (1/4 mile and roadcourse). Now thats a 2010 GT500 and we will have to see what the 2011 GT500 does. So a 4000 pound S/C Camaro would be a relative lightweight (haha) to the CTS-V which is already kicking **** and taking names.

One of the keys to the CTS-V's success has been traction, both from tires, suspension tunning, and weight balance. Contrary, this is what has hindered the GT500. The 2011 GT500 will have better balance with the aluminum block, but I see no mention of wider or sticker tires on the base model and no mention of control arm changes to correct the wheel hop it suffers from. The SVT package adds some very sticky tires, but the price starts getting really high!!!!