Pacer, you just summed it all up. That right there is the reason for BM's existance on this board. From here on out, anytime GM does something to increase its sales that isn't a part of The Bible----uh I mean, "The Plan", it's going to be a bad move. With all the other positive reactions from salesmen here, BM doesn't really appear to be very genuine in his commentary. Sorry Mr. Dollinger but that's how you are perceived around here.

 

Did anyone else notice that ever since Buickman arrived here.... redzed's almost disappeared?

They both dodge facts and questions in the same fashion...

Maybe "Buick"man drives an Armada?!

j/k... but it's a slow day! Carry on.

 

Ok, I have to chime in here on both the behalf of Jason and Jim.

First off, here at this dealership, sales and traffic have increased very much so. This is a good thing indeed. A little bit of everything is selling and this is all you can ask for lately. Keep in mind we have Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, GMC, and Caddy.

Secondly, not long ago, I spoke with the "Buickman" himself, Jim D, for about an hour and a half via telephone. Not a bad guy, but not without flaws either. In all, his motivations in his "plan" are good ideas, some not phrased quite right, others will make little to any difference in the total outcome at GM, and some are ideas that really could/should be used. Basically, his plan outlines some good ideas that can put GM's dealers on a better path to getting some good PR for GM, and this is a good idea. The translation here on the board sometimes by Jim is that "The Plan" needs to be completetly used now to "save" GM. While I don't agree with that totally, I do feel implimenting some of the these ideas now should serve its pupose later in due time.

Jim could better his image on this board by not arguing when a good thing is happening and bringing both sides of the situation to the table and expressing the pros and cons without an "I'm so sure" attitude. GMS isn't a bad deal for the dealer, but by no means is it the best either, is an example.

I cannot say too much about Jim since I don't know him well enough, but he seems to genuinely care for GM, even if he shows it in an odd way. True, some questions are skirted around here amongst other places, but nobody has all the answers. Nobody. And really, that's all that has to be said, and nothing more. And that's goes for both Jim as well as everyone else.

On the GMS program, I feel it has served its purpose to sell-sell-sell, but I think more than anything (and I'm sure these other dealers that aren't so heavy into GMS sales as the dealers that Jim has mentioned) we need to be concerned about what the next months will bring. As Jim said, you can't drop huge numbers on vehicle, for example diesel trucks, to have them be $4K more the next month and expect people to running the doors down as they are now. There is much truth to what was said that if people get a rebate, they will wait until it comes again.

So in conclusion, I am very interested as to what GM will have for us in the coming months. Mean while, we have to make hay while the sun shines.

 

Thanks for the honest criticism. Yes, I do care about GM, always have. While some of us are making money under GMS, many are not. Regular commissions have dried up and plenty of salespeople are taking gas while working their tails off. Unfortunately, I believe GM will continue the program, throwing the business further into a downward spiral of price cutting. Meanwhile, as they reduce prices, the 5% will drop as well, less money for the dealer. We'll see many pros leave the business for greener pastures. GM has one foot nailed to the floor and is circling the drain. Look for another quarterly loss of some magnitude.
Closing divisions, consolidating franchises, selling assets, increasing borrowings at higher rates, and cutting prices is no recipe for growth or profitablilty. GM is in very serious trouble, don't be fooled by this temporary upswing. The payback is going to be brutal. Actually, I'd like nothing better than to be completely wrong on this one, but my gut feeling is not good.

 

You make money on every GMS sale. Like it was said earlier, if this is not the case, why not opt out of GMS at your dealership? Why not? Because probably 70-80% or more of your business *IS* GMS before this program was started .

You are in a heavy GMS employee market, right?

On the flip side, this is GREAT for the consumer. You want GM to gain market share, but you want them to charge more for existing vehicles. Makes no sense.

It's already well established that car sales is a job that has incrtedibly high turnover. Heck, you YOURSELF has even stated that you LEFT THE BUSINESS for a time, but were lured back.

More aimless rhetoric.

GM took action, and has had better than expected results, and I think you are just a little put out, because they are having some success right now, and we all now that is not possible (in your mind, anyway)if they don't buy your plan....

 

A temporary market share increase due to rebates, deals etc. is not good long term for GM. Very similiar to what happened after 9/11. It gained sales at first, then took a nose dive.

The resale values of some GM cars are among the lowest, and rebates fuel the fire. This alone drives many people away from GM. It also plays a role in the widely talked about perceived quality here. It makes GM look bad to have their vehicles drop resale value so much after only a couple of years. Rebates kill GM on this. And the perception of GM cars being cheap go with it.

Union contracts are what I am thinking is what keeps pushing rebates so hard, to keep the plants running. This has to be a giant headache for GM, and not much good comes out of rebates, incentives for GM in the long term. Some people here have said it creates showroom traffic. Well build a car everyone wants and it will also generate the traffic, and no rebates, incentives will be needed to sell them

 

While I agree that this is not something that GM should do over the long haul, it has been successful short term, and should provide long term dividends as well.

It's been noted that a large percentage of the sales during this promotion have been conquest sales. These are people who are coming over from another brand who may not have done so otherwise. These are NEW customers... customers who might not have otherwise driven GM vehicles, and who may very well come back and buy GM again next time around.



I agree that resale values are "low" for some GM vehicles, however, the term "low" applies, because resale value is based on a percentage of sticker price. With GM sticker prices being so over-inflated, then brought back down by rebates.... it makes it look much worse than it is, and I'd be willing to bet that in reality, resale percentages of actual sale price are very similar to the competition.

You are right though.... resale value may be perceived as worse, even if it isn't.... so that is a problem that needs to be addressed. And they are. GM has announced cut backs on MSRP's almost across the board for 2006. Guess what... those resale values are going to go up just because of this, even though actual transaction prices will not change.

[quote]
Union contracts are what I am thinking is what keeps pushing rebates so hard, to keep the plants running. This has to be a giant headache for GM, and not much good comes out of rebates, incentives for GM in the long term. [quote]

I would agree with this. If you have to pay your workers to do nothing, you might as well pay them to do something. You lose less money, and might even make a little.......rather than giving your money away.

It does build showroom traffic, but I agree... ultimately better product is what we need.

Cadillac has shown that this is possible for GM. Many of the new cars are selling with significantly lower incentives than the older vehicles (Equinox, Corvette, 2005 GTO, etc...)

 

We've got a Bingo!

I really don't understand why it's so hard for people to figure this out. It's like, "Mr. Johnson, your Malibu that you paid $14,000 for last year is now worth $10,000, even though it MSRP'ed for $18,000. It didn't drop $8K. Only $4K, because that's what you actually paid for the car."

GM's resale values are much on the same percentile as everyone else's vehicles, and in many cases, better. Look at the facts and you'll see that GM's resale is more than competitive with the rest of the marketplace. And in all reality, this makes pre-owned GM vehicles great buys for those who want to save some cash over buying new.

 

Which is why the sticker should be $14,000, and the games should end.

Any organization that tracks resale value will use MSRP--because that's what's published, and that's all they have. Hence, the $18,000-$10,000 OMG! scenario.

People believe what they're told. GM should stop giving its detractors free ammo, like these skewed resale comparisons.

 

It looks like they are taking steps in that direction with the MY2006 MSRP reductions....

 

Precisely. If GM is going to effectively grow and regain market share, not to mention profitability, it's going to have to grab buyers from other places. If the cars hold together well, they'll change the minds of a lot of those of import-biased people...which leads to word-of-mouth advertising, which leads to more people buying GM vehicles. How else did the Japanese cement their success in America? By offering a quality product at a lower price, and word got around.

 

Used GM vehicles are a great buy! The problem with incentives is that not everyone gets them. Not everyone gets a great deal. Some people do pay close to sticker, and lose their butts on resale. Some incentives only last a few months etc. Some people do not know how to negotiate. So it is very difficuly to try and compare resale values based on anything other than MSRP, even if incentives drop actual prices in many cases. GM should have known better than to jack MSRP, and then credit huge incentives.

 

I ordered an 05 Silverado dually crew cab with Dmax/Allison in April and was planning on using GM in the driveway plus rebate for a discount of $7700 and using bank financing. When GMS to the public was announced, I was trying to compare the GM cert and rebate vs. GMS. I couldnt believe that GM had a $3000 rebate ON TOP OF the GMS employee price. So I purchased a $42,000 truck for about $32,000. $10,000 off, what a deal! Now, I have lowered the price of my older truck $2000 because everyone can buy a new one for $10,000 off sticker. $2300 savings becomes $300 and the payment went up because the bank financing (6%) is more than double GMAC (2.9%) on the older truck. So the deal turns out to be not so great when the total picture is seen. Still cant beat the smell of a new vehicle.

 

I suspect that BM is an old school type of salesman. You know the type. Polyester clothes, wide white belt, white shoes, slicked back hair. Smilin' Jim.

These are the types of salespeople that gave dealers a bad rap over the years.

They're the ones who like to confuse and trick their potential customers just so they can make an extra buck.

So now with GM Employee pricing, GM has taken away all of his sales "tools" and now he's stuck selling a vehicle at what GM wants the vehicle to be sold at. He and others like him can't find ways (and hide ways) to screw the customer. Waaaaaa.

It's about times the customers got a break from salespeople.

I've always wondered why car manufacturers didn't keep the sales part in house. Set a fair price and forget about it. None of this invoice, re-invoice, net, holdback, factory-dealer incentive BS.

Notice he says that these practices will force out the "pros". (what are they "pros" at anyways? Being shysters?)I say good riddance. We need younger blood (like Jason E) in these positions. Guys who know the whole deal who don't come across like someone who's trying to rob you. Honest people.

 

Dockers, golf shirt, loafers, and 3500 loyal customers. Guess again fool.