I think comparing the G8 to the M5 is silly also, but comparing the G8 GT or G8 GXP to a more expensive run of the mill 5-series is very valid.

You BMW boys always crack me up (I have many BMW friends from 5 series owners, to M3's, to 7 series). All I ever hear you guys say is "oh the driving experience", "oh the feel", etc. It is soo funny. I swear you have all told each other this so many times that you have brainwashed yourselves that no other car can equal the "driving experience" of the BMW. In your defense, the magazines have been brainwashed as well and thus you are in a vicious cycle you are likely to never escape.

I don't think you are giving the G8 a fair shake compared to the 5 series (not the M5). It demolishes the 528i and 535i in terms of performance and competes with the 550i. Shoot, even the G8 GXP is significantly cheaper than the 528i. As for the interior and chassis, I personally think they are competitive. The BMW certainly has some more features (many that you dont really need) and I would give it the nod in interior (although their hard leather is not for everyone), but it also costs SIGNIFICANTLY more. Thus, if you don't need all the bells and whistles, yet still want a nice interior, ride quality, driving experience, and performance the G8 is a great option for $10 to $20k less dollars.

Oh, and this "driving experience" thing. Even if a 528i made me feel like I was Michael Shumaker everyday, I would still be driving a 230hp 4 door sedan and getting smoked by ricers and minivans. That would pretty much ruin my day.

 

I leased my GTO new and bought my Sky new. I for one feel the pricetag for the GXP is too much. Maybe I should say too much for me. If it were in the low to mid 30's (31-33k) I would consider it but this is just too much in my opinion.
Maybe if they have a $6k rebate like they did with the GTO eventually I will consider one (I did not get that rebate when I bought mine).

 

I think you're confusing me for a BMW fan boy. I'm not. I assure you I'm looking at this from a very unbiased perspective... I call things as I see them. In fact I'll be the first to tell you I consider BMW's cars to be over priced... especially their options. I also consider them to be in many ways poorly engineered.

But I'll also be the first to tell you that there's a dramatic difference in feel between driving a G8 GT and a 5-series. And no I'm not just talking about the connected driver/machine feel, I'm talking about NVH and general chassis response as well. They don't feel even remotely similar.

Obviously anyone buying the 528i doesn't give a damn about performance or just wants to be seen in a 5 series that didn't cost them any more than it had to.

IIRC the 535i, in terms of sheer performance, compares very well to G8 GT, and the G8 GXP is somewhere between the 550i and M5 in terms of performance, although with BMW's new twin turbo V8 replacement for the N/A V8 currently in the 550i coming out in 6-8 months... it will likely make the comparison closer between the G8 GXP and whatever they're going to call the 550i replacement.

However all of those performance comparisons aside, the price difference and driving experience are still not remotely close, for better or for worse. Which brings me back to my original point that it's extremely difficult to put these two cars side by side and pretend like it's an apples to apples comparison. It's just not.

 

That in a nutshell covers what the G8 is about IMO.

 

I have toured the BMW plant in Greer, SC (behind the scenes) and worked on BMW projects in school for the paint process (door brake). I actually consider the cars to be VERY well engineered. I think their downfall is that they are over-engineered and honestly, have too tight of tolerances (yes there is such a thing). This is why it takes so much and costs so much to keep them running in tip top shape.

I can maybe see the NVH, but I wouldn't call it dramatic. As for the chassis response, the G8 chassis is praised seven ways from Sunday for comfort and response. Can you be more specific about the differences you noticed?

I agree it is difficult to compare them due to the huge price difference and partly the vehicles. I also think the ingrained perception of BMW makes it difficult for one to allow themselves to failry compare it to a "lesser" priced vehicle. For example. If the G8 had a MB grill and was called the E600, I think the reviews in comparison to the 5 series would be more favorable.

It is hard to change perception. Just ask GM and Ford!

 

I agree completely. The G8 GT is a fine car. But the 5 series is in a completely different league.

 

The main point is that everyone has their turn-ons and turn-offs. You want a nice interior and nav. Someone else will want RWD and a big V8. Someone else will want that BMW feel. I've owned BMWs, Mercedes, and a couple of Z28 Camaros. The BMW and Mercedes are very nice, but the Camaro is fine for what I want. I don't care about nav, and I want a functional interior, but I don't need luxury. I liked the way the Camaro took a lot less out of my bank account.

Re: G8 GXP, I don't think GM expects it will sell more than a few thousand, so obviously, the appeal is more limited than that of an Acura TL. But that doesn't mean the GXP isn't a great car.

 

The $2k difference is in the GT vs the base TL, but the TL Type-S is about $6.5k more. I have been in the G8, and the interior is very nice. I haven't been in new TL's, but a guy at works as an 05 or 06. It is a nice interior, but I wouldn't say twice as good as the G8's.


Still, the G8 needs to have SAT Traffic and NAV.

 

Nope. That's what the going price was for the Type-S. I paid $2k more for the Type-S than what the Pontiac dealership was offering for the GT. I probably could have gotten a base TL for $28k-29k.

 

Don't compare MSRP and retail transaction prices. The only fair thing to compare is MSRP.

 

I don't even know how that's really "fair." Very few cars go for actual MSRP. I mean, if you pay MSRP for an Impala, you're a complete idiot, if you catch my drift. I mean seriously, when was the last time that anyone actually paid close to MSRP for a G6 or something? Considering we're talking about value, then the going market rate plays much more into that than this imaginary thing called MSRP.

 

Well if the actual retail pricing varies so much then it is impossible to compare prices at all.

 

Has something on your fuel system taken a dump yet? If it hasn't yet, it will soon. Whether it be fault codes from the high pressure pump/injectors to carbon build up in the intake, these N54 engines are like race-bred ones with all the down falls of them as well...tire-roastingly fast but fragile...

Edit: BTW, I love the M6 E60 550i with M-sport package, as I've referenced it in other posts. However, @ 40k I would take the GXP all day long. Just as much fun as the Bimmer minus about half the price / rubbery shifter / OPEN DIFF?!

 

Well, performance and size are not exactly got-it/don't-got-it criteria. There are lots of different sizes and levels of performance.

Size
In general, the larger a car, the more expensive it will be. There are these gray lines drawn throughout the market that divide it into "classes", in which a 5-series would generally be classified as a midsize luxury sport sedan. A G8 is definitely a midsize sedan, but is clearly not luxury. I think that the GT and GXP definitely qualify for the "sport" moniker, and having driven a V6, I'd be tempted to assign it there too.

So, take a 535i, subtract some luxury, add some performance (I'll get to that in a minute), lop ten grand off the sticker price, and yeah, I'd say you have a good value.

Performance
Just for reference, the best-performing car that I have any significant seat time in is my Camaro. (I've driven a couple cars that are slightly faster on the drag strip and a third gen with a 400rwph and a road course suspension, but just once or twice each). The best-riding car that I have any significant seat time in is a 2006 Impala LTZ. I have no delusions about there being faster, better-handling or better-riding cars out there, but just so you know what my baselines are.

I don't think there are going to be any arguments about straight line acceleration. Despite a ~10% weight disadvantage, the G8 GXP is going to hand a 535i its *** in a straight line.

My impression of the G8 V6 I drove was that it rode slightly more smoothly than the Impala (on different roads, so YMMV), while at the same time taking corners with less body roll and providing more road feedback. It's worlds better than the Impala, not to mention all of the other vehicles I've driven (which, admittedly, does not include any BMWs).

• While not groundbreaking, the G8's interior design is both functional and pleasing to my eye. Ergonomics were fine. The seat was comfortable and I had no issues adjusting it to my liking.
• Features -- everything I expect, nothing I don't. Cooled seats would have been nice; I don't think it has that.
• It's hard to comment on quality without owning one, but a quick perusal of the results of some Google searches indicate that there are a normal number of TSBs and no recalls. I haven't been looking for them, but I haven't heard about any quality nightmares on G8s, or on Holden cars in general.
• My personal opinion was that the G8's overall driving experience was excellent. This is supported by the opinions of magazine writers who have driven everything from the Tata Nano to the Bugatti Veyron.
• My experience with the service departments at the four different Pontiac dealers I've visited has been that the personnel are intelligent, helpful, and courteous. I've actually sent vehicles in for service to two of those dealers, and my experiences were excellent. On one occasion, they were only going to take 20-30 minutes to do the work, and I was offered coffee and donuts while I waited (donuts were tasty; didn't try the coffee). On the other occasion, the car was being left there overnight, and they offered me a free loaner car for the day (I didn't need it, and so declined).

I'm sure that, as a Chevy/Pontiac/Buick owner, my standards are different than those of a Toyota/Lexus/BMW owner. However, the G8 is a fine vehicle.

Bottom line: I think that the G8 GT is a lot of car for not a lot of money. The GXP is a nice upgrade, and still a nice value, but I don't think it matches the GT's bang for the buck. A 5-series, on the other hand, is a lot of car for a lot of money.

 

Just curious, does it have a limited slip differential? Or equal half-shafts? I think that Neon SRT-4 had equal half-shafts to reduce torque steer.

No doubt it accelerates VERY well, I actually liked the TL for quite a while, not crazy about the current one, but I'm sure it's a really nice car. I am just pointing out there is always a difference between a V8 and a V6, no matter how powerful the V6 is. The low-end torque of the V8 is only approached by a turbo 6.