If you go down there sometime, you'll notice that every other car is a Grand Marquis, and T-Birds are as common as Camrys.

 

I assure you that if GM's B-body was still in production, there'd still be demand and it'd still be making money.

Everything else you said about Ford resembles GM in the 90s rather closely - think carefully about what GM did in the last decade, and it's not all that spectacular They went absolutely nowhere with their car platforms, the S-truck platform only got a reskin, and the full-size trucks ran almost the whole decade. The F-body was really the only major development on the car side, and the biggest redesign on the truck side prior to the GMT800 was the G-van redo in '96. Not a spectacular track record, I'd dare say.

Ford seems to be doing OK on the truck side, and I think they're just going to rely on sharing car platforms with Mazda to get themselves by. I certainly don't think they're in as strong of a position as GM or DCX to do well in the car market. In the truck market, well, as long as they can sell a lot of trucks without putting heavy incentives on them, things will work out just fine - looks like they'll keep the Ford faithful happy with the new F150.

 

Not to mention it costs a $1,000 more a unit to make...

When companies worry over pennies, that is a huge amount.

 

Thunderbird isn't selling badly, and it isn't a disaster. Ford feels there is more money to earn on a higher volume version, so it's proposed to return to the coupe market. T-birds planned to be off the market for a very short time, possibly as little as 6 months. Too early to know for sure.

 

Beings Wixom is slated to get 4 new vehicles (at the time being) and the Town Car heading to the CV plant it would leave room open for it.


Other points.Seems so many of you are missing a rather big part of the picture here.Sure GM is ahead of the redesign game.But Ford is sitting on old "paid for" products.Seems there is alot of profit going on there.SMART move if you ask me.Not the brightest but hey,They sell alot of "old" products.Taurus-F series-Mustang-CV-Focus Just to name a couple.None of these sell "badly" at all.

Gm plans on bringing its major prodcuts out about the same time Ford will flood the market with new products from what Ive read.So why is this thread leading to Ford isnt bringing anything out til 2020?2005 is a BIG year for Ford.Many new vehicles will be out by then.

guionM could you please take a minute and make a list of "known" Ford models that will be out in 2005?And make a comparison list to what Chevrolet will have new on their plate for the year 2005.....

 

the T-bird sales might be semi-strong now, but they'll keep falling year after year. i mean, the novelty has worn off for those who wet their panties for one and could afford it. i'm surprised they sell as many of the new t-birds as they do. its not a second car, maybe not even a 3rd. and for those who can afford 3-4 luxury vehicle there are many choices to blow their cash on.

 

I personally hope they sell a ton more. Then maybe some of the American Manufacturers will stop nickel and diming their cars into relative mediocrity and build competitive, desirable products.

 

Known or expected for 2005 MY:
Ford: Mustang, Five Hundred, Montego, restyled Corwn Victoria & Town Car.
Chevrolet: Colbalt, redesigned FWD Impala (with V8), Redesigned Monte Carlo (if it remains FWD), Corvette.
Chrysler: Dodge Magnum wagon, Chrysler 300, Sebring & probally also Stratus redesign, Chrysler minivans (perhaps wrongly included since I'm not including SUVs & crossovers).


Known or expected for 2006 MY:
Ford: Futura, Lincoln Continental (likely the restyled LS).
Chevrolet: Chevrolet's RWD "Caprice", RWD GTO derivitive.
Chrysler: Neon, Dodge LX Sedan, PT Cruiser, either the production Razor or an LX derived coupe (one of the 2).

Worth noting:
*Most all Chrysler vehicles will be all new (Mitsubishi will form the basis of all FWD vehicles by the 2nd half of the decade, and the RWD LX is all new).
*Save the Impala and Monte Carlo if both are based on mid-lux, all the Chevys will be all new (the Vette's C5 chassis will be heavily modified for the C6).

In fairness, Ford does have "new" products on line for mid decade. However, with Focus & Crown Vic due to run out the decade while Australia's arm gets a new Falcon (big RWD sedan) and everywhere but the US will have a new Focus, and top that off with the Ranger keeping the same body for over 15 years (+/- 2008) you wonder what's going on here.

Falcon gives Ford the same opportunity to have a "Global" RWD car as GM's "volume" sigma.

Why go to the expense to create 2 different Focus chassis? Why not keep the current one world wide (it's still reasonably new), or make the new one standard issue worldwide.

Why spend the money to create & market 2 new sedans (Futura & Five Hundred) instead of redoing or replacing the existing one they are supposed to eventually replace?

Perhaps Ford has a master plan that brings all this together, but to an outsider, it's still pretty baffling.

Biased against the Bird, are we?

All car sales drop off after the initial rush. By your "surprise" at how strong Thunderbird sales still are, you seem to be conceeding that Thunderbird sales are still good at the very least, which out here & I imagine other sunny places like Florida, they are.

It's just a matter of where you are as to how many of them you see. On sunny days in Cali, you see these Thunderbird convertibles come out of the woodwork.

 

guionM-I understand the baffling part.But I was really wanting to point out that Ford isnt exactly sitting with is finger up its butt.There is one car you forgot to mention.The freestyle crossover?Im sure it was over looked.

If you think hard you might come up with the same conclusion I have why Ford is still selling the Taurus and CV while bringing the 500 and Futura to market.Im sure there are negative reasons why someone would think its a bad idea.But not myself.

The Focus.From what Ive read so far the C1 platform is nothing more then a C170 platform which the Focus rides on now.It is exactly like what GM is doing with the C5 to C6 Vette.Just made better with development.Did you know in the WRC they use US spec Focus's for their rally cars?The rear bumper sticks out further and that lets them have their wing stick out further because rules state the wing cannot stick out further then the bumper.Nothing big but interesting.

 

I agree on this one, the new BA Falcon is a great car. You take out its weight problems and its a superior car to the Holden VY Commodore.

Why not build them instead of Crown Vics?

 

All good points, but I'm not implying Ford's sitting on it's thumb. What I'm noticing is that from an outsider's perspective, what Ford's doing is pretty inconsistant. Creating multiple sedans instead of replacing one, a 2nd full sized truck redesign while it's small truck becomes an antique, creating a Freestyle crossover that's barely bigger than the Escape, and spending money on a new Falcon & not getting more from that investment by selling or producing it here, or perhaps by spending money reengineering a Focus that may not even need it (Mondeo had a longer run than that).

Ford isn't standing still, far from it. Also, regardless of popular perceptions, Ford is far from broke or scrounging for dollars anymore (they just can't afford any more introduction or quality screwups).

It's just that in my view (and I'll conceed I'm no wizard at this) there are better ways Ford can use it's resources and get better returns. That's all.

 

OK - categorically speaking, Ford must be VERY careful and not have any more tire/rollover type fiascos or they could very well be liquidated based on the market value of their stock. Out of business - NO, I don't see that happening at alll... bought by Toyota - DEFINITELY POSSIBLE. And don't giggle, because Toy can buy GM too if they choose to. They had enough CASH from US sales last ear alone to buy either company at the level stocks were at a year ago.

That being said, I think Ford is definitely on the right track. They do have both short and long term plans, and they are sticking to those plans. They are ahead on short term, and on track for long term. They corrected a $7-billion charge in less than a year - that's phenominal - and that was without a new Mustang or F-150 to ride on either, AND during the most aggressive incentive battle EVER in US markets. Not too shabby IMO.

I have written on this board several times that Ford's long range plan has them streamlining their platforms, enhancing target niche markets, and releasing new models out the wazootie...

1) They are going from 18 to 12 platforms in the US market for all of their offerings - a reduction of 1/3. That will significantly reduce operating costs and streamline parts/processing charges too.
2) They are CAUTIOUSLY retiring old faithful units as new models become available and accepted in the market. Very wise if you ask me, given their situation.
3) They are working on trucks first, then cars. Internally, they have officially dubbed '04 the "Year of the Truck" and '05 the "Year of the Car".
3) They are scheduled to introduce 65 new models in the next 4.5 years... NOW THAT'S AGGRESSIVE!!!

Although they have been somewhat deprived of attention recently, Lincoln and Mercury are well-positioned in this revamping too - beleive me. I think the new Messenger, Cougar, and Marauder will clearly define Mercury, and the new Continental, LSC, and LS will define Lincoln's new direction well.

As for Ford's mainstay cars, the Futura is more aimed at an "upscale economy car" whereas the Five-hundred is a full-size family sedan. They are distinctly different, and not both "Taurus replacements". With the Mustang, Crown Vic, and Focus derivatives, I think Ford will have the field well-covered for anyone wanting a car to look at.

Ford has made it clear that they are going to work on their truck line first (as evidenced by the new F-150), then they are going to work on their cars next. This makes perfectly good sense, because their F-150 is the best-selling vehicle in America and the most profitable for Ford - why not invest in your star player first? I have personally not heard that the Ranger has been written off to 2010 yet. I'm betting you'll see a "new" Ranger sooner than you think! The platform may not change, but the next Ranger will likely coincide with the 3-year revamp to hit the Explorer (due soon too! ) and they will share much front and side sheet metal, as well as revamped interiors which will emulate the new F-150 in "smaller" versions.

Here's a link to one of the best articles I've seen that explains everything about Ford's plans in one place. Not lots of detail, but a great overview of the whole plan. Read it CAREFULLY - there are great indicators in there for those who can read between the lines. They also mention that the PAG is due for changes (article was written in April BTW), which we have since seen happen. (Maybe you don't want your luxury car to be misinterpreted as a ritzy race-car after all? I dunno.)

We haven't even began to talk about potential Shelby's, GTs, the upcoming L's and Cobras, and all the other great enthusiast-teasers that are in the works. The Harley-Davidson trucks, Saleens, Roush cars, etc. I mean honestly, there's all kinds of neat things happening in the blue camp.

I don't think GM, Toyota, Honda, or anyone else needs to fear Ford dominating the roost for a while, but I certainly don't think they are headed out to pasture just yet either. I'll wager somebody a doughnut they'll be around for a while.

 

ProudPony,

I thought the messenger was purely a concept car. You mentioned it was planned to be released...???...

I wouldn't be dissappointed though...I though it was heads and shoulders above the Mustange concept in looks!

 

"rumored and just about confirmed"

Messenger=New Cougar.

 

Well, guess who is pretty much on-track - again!
I have heard unofficial rumors like everyone else, but these rumors DO seem to have some validity. I do know for sure that Mercury IS developing a production unit based on the Messenger concept shown at Detroit. What it will be called I do not yet know.
But bear this in mind...
Messenger IS based on the DEW platform, shared considerable parts with the Mustang concept cars (like the 4.6 V8, 6-speed, and RWD systems to name a few), and except for skins and interior - it used almost all parts from existing products.

Here's a nice and informative editorial (notice the website )
Here's a pic of the original Cougar II concept done back in '64 - there are OBVIOUS similarities between it and the new "Messenger" concept to me. (full link )
And here's the best article I've read yet stating the future positioning of the Mercury brand - QUOTE - "Given Mercury’s 1960s-era reputation for producing performance cars for suburban gentlemen (like the Marauder) and vehicles driven by upper class suburban women, the Messenger may be the clearest statement yet of the division’s intention to dominate this market segment once again."

I'll take a wager on the Messenger coming to life... soon too!
It just might not have the same name...