guionM

This involves Ford of Austraila, so I'm not sure anyone here may be interested other than Decromin, but Ford is spending half a billion dollars on the new series Falcon (includes Futura & Fairmont). This will be a ground up redesign.

The current Falcon line has been less than successful, but the current facelifted version looks far better than the initial version introduced a few years ago. If you think Monaro's profile in pictures looks like a Cavalier, you should see the front of the Futura.

What really stands out about the upcomming redesign is that there will be a new rear suspension is near identical to the upcomming Mustang called "barra" for some reason or another. It will beat Holden's new VE to market by about a year.

It certainly won't be exported to the US due not to certification problems, but Ford of Austraila isn't currently interested in exports.

Meanwhile, Holden is currently not only exporting vehicles to many countries, but is also designing various Asian lines for GM's various subsideraries.

TheNewMonaro

Barra is an internal Ford Oz name for the new Falcon.. it will not be called anything other than Falcon.

guionM

http://www.bonforums.com/cars/falcon_newmodel071702.htm

Lightspeed

The suspension is being dubbed 'control blade' and is a derivative of the system first used in Focus 4WD wagon. Ford Australia's engineers did a great deal of work to change it, since this is the first time it's been used on a RWD car, and the first time that serious amounts of torque have had to be reacted.

The 'Barra' model (dubbed BA) Falcon will launch in about 3 months time, although pictures and some details have already been released. This model will get the new suspension. Holden is stuck with its ancient semi-trailing arm setup until 2005 and the launch of VE. It would appear, from a mechanical perspective, that the Falcon will have the goods on Commodore:

Better engines
Better transmissions
Better suspensions

The VY will have to be a vast improvement on the mechanical unsophistication of VX if it is to compete against new Falcon.

This is excellent news for Australian car buyers, anyway. Ford is on the ropes right now, so they're striking back with a good looking, though conservative, new car with several vast mechanical improvements over the old model. It means Holden is simply going to have to respond if it wants to compete. The current Fod IRS really leaves Holden for dead, let alone their new one which will be lighter and available on base models.

If you want to see what I'm talking about, next time you're in Australia, try dropping a Commodore off a single track sealed road onto the gravel (ie one side on and one off), then merge back onto the road, where there is a step about 2" high between the two, at 100 kph. Do the same in an AU Falcon (any Falcon, even the leaf spring wagon, for goodness sake). Repeat at higher and higher speeds. The idea is not to kill yourself, but notice what the back end does in the Commodore. Notice that the Falcon just drives back onto the road. I LOVE showing that to people.

I'm a car guy, first and foremost. I love Holden's, but I know a superior package when I see one. It's now up to Holden to respond.

Ude-lose

Aye the falcon has some nice IRS system that its just spent 500 million on ill give them that, the rest in terms of looks has once again failed miserably. if you thought the holden was bland then this is fugly???

do you know what Holden is doing with the money they are making selling 2 holdens to evry 1 Ford in OZ??? they are developing an all wheel drive system for the monaro... that, and the new sigma platform comming up for the new family cars. !!!.

[This message has been edited by Ude-lose (edited July 19, 2002).]

Lightspeed

We'll see what happens regarding the design. I've been slightly underwhelmed by the leaked details of the way VY will look.

And have you forgotten Ford's 4WD program? That's well advanced too.

I'm looking forward to the debut of Sigma in VE in 2005, but until then we've got to put up with an inferior system in Commodore.

Ude-lose

Hey lightspeed tell our friend about the last few years of supercar V8 track performances of the Holden vs ford ???

nuff said...

Lightspeed

Well, no, actually, it's nothing said at all. If you genuinely believe that V8 Supercar races are a genuine reflection on the quality of both manufacturer's vehicles, then you're a naive fool. V8 Supercars have very little in common with their road going cousins. And in the case of the Holdens I'd point out that they still use a beam axle (i.e. live rear), which isn't found on any production Commodore because they're all IRS.

V8 Supercars are nothing more than an expensive marketing exercise. They reflect little more than the amount of money teams have, and the skill of the driver sitting behind the wheeel.

Holden's dominance of V8 Supercars is certainly one aspect of their off-track success, but if you think it's anything but a reflection of Holden's marketing ability you are sadly mistaken.

Ude-lose

Fool???... hmmmmm nice... i think ive hit a sore spot....

isnt that what the rest of the people here are saying the reason the F-body failed - poor marketing.

Sorry I lost faith in Ford after "X" series falcons.


Hey you likem,,, thats cool !!!

ProudPony

I have to give .02 on the use of V8 Supercars as a class judge for street car performance.

It's not a fair comparison at all.

The V8 Supercars are no more "street cars" than our NASCAR units are up here. I think less than 1% of what's on a NASCAR unit actually can be found in a street version of the car by the same name. Can't say the same for a Supercar, but I'm sure they are radically altered from their production counterparts.

Either way, this kind of one-upsmanship is actually very healthy for the cars themselves, so I am glad to hear that the bar has been raised a notch! Kudos to Ford/Tickford and Holden.

guionM

I think NASCAR has even less to do with production cars than the V8 supercars. At least the V8 Supercars share RWD, V8 engine, and a body that is identifiable as the car in the showroom. Can't say the same about our NASCAR.

As far as the rear suspensions between Falcon & Commodore, I'll concede that the current Falcon is more sophisticated, but it is based on the current Cobra IRS which is basically a jerry-rigged unit that is stuffed in a place where IRS wasn't intended to go.

The new "blade" design uses a stamped steel subframe which is lighter than the current Falcon/Cobra tubular steel version, and the whole unit is lighter & cheaper to make than the old Cobra based unit as well as the fairly new DEW IRS.

There are pictures of this IRS design in one of the Austrailan car mags I brought back.

Lightspeed

It's news to me that the Falcon uses anything but the DEW98 derived double wishbone front and rear independent suspensions. I'll find out, anyway.

Z284ever

Guion,could that be the IRS on the converted Focus RWD
platform mentioned in BON recently?

guionM

[/b][/QUOTE]Guion,could that be the IRS on the converted Focus RWD
platform mentioned in BON recently?[/B][/QUOTE]

Couldn't find it at BON. I know the blade suspension design is also on the Focus, and that Focus is made in AWD in europe, but I haven't heard anything about a RWD Focus.

Though I'm just guessing, if there is one, it could be a one off concept like GM's RWD Reatta from some years ago.

Z284ever

You're right, I couldn't find that story on BON either. Maybe they pulled it.

What it said was, that the 2005 Mustang wouldn't be based on DEW98....but to save cost would be based off of a RWD converted Focus chassis.

The story sounded pretty ridiculous to me...maybe that's why it's gone.