Originally posted by muckz
Yes, it does seem Ford is getting ahead of not just GM but also Chrysler. We'll see what happens in 06/07, but as of 2004 I agree, Ford does take top performance and HP (including fantasyland GT).

Originally posted by SNEAKY NEIL
You mean like the 06' Cobra. I believe it is Mayor of Fantasyland.

Originally posted by PacerX
Here we go again...

Listen to me very carefully... I'll say it again...

GM WILL NOT lose a horsepower war with F*rd.

Ain't gonna happen. The next Camaro is going to send the Cobra home with it's tail between it's legs. GT will be no match whatsoever for the top-gun Corvette, and C6 Z06's are targeted squarely at the GT. NOT the top-gun ZL1. The Z06. The ZL1 will be head and shoulders above anything F*rd can do with the GT.

Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale. Economy of scale.

Originally posted by Snorman
ROTFLMAO! Who are you, Bob Lutz? Another Fantasyland candidate!
What 5th-gen F-body...the one that is thus far not even officially confirmed? It's so far off you have no idea what it looks like, what the drivetrain will be or how it will perform. Don't be ridiculous.
The C6 Z06 is targeted "squarely at the GT"? Can you prove that? Unsubstantiated blathering.
What ZL1? The Fantasyland ZL1? GM hasn't commited to building it. You have no idea about what this Fantasyland C6 variant would possibly be powered by, nor how it would perform.
Little hint, GM is already losing the horsepower war with Ford. Deal with it. The Z06 is their last standing effort, as well as the upcoming C6. Bravo. They're building a car pushing $50k for the masses? Gimme' a break.
Ford has a 300hp GT that will be unveiled in January. Ford is currently building a 260hp Mustang, a 300+hp Mustang, a 400+hp Mustang, a 400hp truck, a 300hp 4-door luxo-barge (Marauder), has an entry to compete with the imports in the SVT Focus (soon to be defunct, I hear), and a 600hp Ferrari/Lambo-killing GT.
What's GM done lately? Released an underpowered SSR and Silverado SS, discontinued the F-body and redone the upmarket Corvette for those willing to spend $50k?
After 4 years of domination with the LS1, GM is now lagging. Guessing what GM might build and comparing it to what Ford is building is pointless.
S. [/B]

Originally posted by scott9050
I seem to remember Johnny Hunkins listing about 15 reasons about a year ago why the F-car is not coming back, and no one responded to him atthat time. What has changed? Anyone remember that post? Again, I will believe it when I see it.

Originally posted by Chris 96 WS6
I love the unmitigated hubris of Mustang guys that come to this board and mouth off because they read some thread somewhere about "hey guys, these idiots at Camaroz28.com think the GT won't be the greatest car ever, lets set them straight."

GM's been handing Ford its own *** for over 10 yrs through various itterations of the LT1, LT4, LS1 and LS6. Ford finally comes out kinda on top with the '03 Cobra which sometimes is faster than the Z06 in a straight line, and all the sudden Ford is the GOD of everything Horsepower.

GM's pockets are deeper and their powertrain engineers have always been among the best in the world. The GT is impressive, but not for the price. With the C6 ZO6 be able to match the Ford GT? Doesn't look like it in terms of acceleration, but it won't be too far behind either. Plus I bet the Z06 is still the better track car. And the Z06 will be half the price.

You can go as fast as you want if you are willing to pay enough. Its doing it within the constraints of an approved budget window that is impressive. GM has always been the best in the world at pulling out a world-class corvette on a shoestring budget. Now that they've been given more resources, do not underestimate them.

Point is this is all speculation. When the cars hit the streets and the drag strip and we start getting real world numbers then we can brag and talk trash. Until then I think everybody, Ford GM or DC, should keep their egos in check.

Originally posted by RiceEating5.0
Yeah, but bastards won't accept monoply money or an IOU slip though.

Originally posted by muckz
Again, apples and oranges. 93-95 Cobras were equivalent to LT1, true. What motor did they have? Not the GT motor. Hence bring up LT4, which walked the Cobra. Then you're saying LS1 was good for 4 years until .... until what, 2003 Cobra? Bring out LS6 again, and you'll see there was straight domination of GM over Ford for entire 10 years.

Originally posted by Z28x
The 96 Cobra and 96 SS both had 305HP but the Camaro SS had 35 more torque

The 95 Cobra had 240HP vs 285HP in the Z28

Originally posted by PacerX
Some of us may know much more than we can let on here. I've told you as much as I can, and can't go any further. I do not blather, and you had better measure your words a little bit more carefully in the future or you will run the risk of being exposed as the fool you apparently are.

Tattoo that one on your eyelids, bub.

Camaros will have no issues whatsoever with any Cobra F*rd decides to build. Dead stock, run-of-the-mill C6's will have nothing to fear from Cobras. The Z06 will match the GT step-for-step, and the ZL1 is quite literally going to blow everything else on the market away short of $600,000 Ferraris.

I know from whence I speak.

I'm not even going to grace Cosby's nonsense with a reply.

Originally posted by Burmite
If some of you guys (Bob Cosby, Snorman) read this forum regularly and collect in your mind all the tidbits of information out there, you'll see a pattern that guys like PacerX and guionM are almost ALWAYS right. They're some of the insiders on this board. And Pacer's claim about the C6 is not too unfounded from the information known. We already know the approximate power and weight of each car and YES the GT will be in trouble.

Originally posted by Bob Cosby
LOL. I see this one might get fun.

As we used to say a long time ago....line-item-style time....



Ok, I'll take your word for it. However, when he/she/it makes blanket statements such as he/she/it did, then its hard to come to any other conclusion. At least from my perspective.

Yours may be different, and that's ok with me.


Hmmmm....I went back and read what I wrote, and I could not figure out where it was that I was passing judgement. I made an observation that I believe to be an accurate description of ***most*** of the folks that post on CZ28.com. The same could be said of any number of similar websites, such as the Corral, Stangnet, ThirdGen.org, etc.


Good - I'm happy for you.


Very much correct. I'll go further and state that it will be very unlikely to have anybody on this Forum/Site buy one. I could be wrong, but if so, it will be very, very few...for more reasons than one.


We can agree! If you took offense to my previous post, it was not intentional, and I apologize.


Other than the part about it being a "halo car", I disagree with your assumptions and premise. Whether it is 100k or 150k, being beyond ones grasp is beyond ones grasp. Simple.


Hence the reason for saying "most" vice "all" or something similar. I am also in a significantly different demographic - as are many others. However, I believe my statement, as written, to be accurate.


Ditto, though I enjoy reading about Camaros, Mustangs, etc more - believe it or not.


I'd be very interested....if it was $35k. But that ain't gonna happen, so as you stated, my only interest is reading about it.


Ok. So tell me why this is important? Also please state the relationship between power, torque, rpm, gearing, and weight, and how they affect the ability of a car to accelerate (leaving other variables, such as traction and wind resistance out of the equation).

BTW....my car in modified form makes ~290 ft/lbs of torque to the rear wheels. Check the sig for recent performance numbers.


Actually, I believe the 95 Z28 had 275, but your point is valid.


Nonsense? Am I supposed to be hurt by that remark or something? You may indeed know "more than you can let on", but so long as you continue to express your opinions/facts/assumptions in such a manner as you have in this thread, expect these sorts of replies to continue whenever the urge hits. If you don't care, then don't respond.


Well, ok, should we thus kiss his/her/its *** out of fear of seeing him not be polite and restrained?

I think not.


In this particular Forum, you may indeed be correct. I should have qualified my statement - it was meant for the site in general.


I do read the Forum regularly, and pay close attention to what folks like guionM post - no kidding. However, I've never paid much attention to Pacer X....and it should be obvious why. If he/she/it is "almost ALWAYS right", then good for him/her/it.


Ok. He/she/it is still talking about something that all but the "well informed" can only read about on sites like this. You'll pardon me if I don't trust someone that talks in such silly absolutes as he/she/it does.


Unlike the GT, what you "know" is still conjecture. You may indeed end up being right. Time will tell. I'll wait for that time, thank you very much.


LOL. Truth be known, this is my first post concerning the GT. I do pay more attention to the Ford stuff than others.

Originally posted by Z284ever
[B]I believe that you are correct!







When the Ford board signed off on this project, they knew full well it's purpose....it was all about image.

If Chevy ever releases a 625 hp, $100,000, ZL1....no one at GM will sign off on it because of the incremental profits such a program would generate. No siree Bob. It'll be to create excitement and buzz for the rest of the line-up.

Just like GT was envisioned to do...even for the lowliest Ford.

Originally posted by Bob Cosby
Or not.

Originally posted by WERM
Who would have thought - even five years ago - that we would be in a "MY 600 HP FORD IS BETTER THAN YOUR 600 HP CHEVY" pissing match interlaced with the supposed "weaknesses" of 390HP Cobra Mustangs compared to 410HP Corvettes? We haven't even thrown 150MPH turbocharged Neons into the fire. These are glory days, indeed.

I'm still throughly enjoying my ~290 HP.