1996 Camaro SS
Horsepower: 310hp @5200RPM <--more power@ a lower RPM than Cobra
(I’m pretty sure there was a 310 hp version this year, not 305 hp?)
Torque: 325lb.-ft. @2400RPM<--more power@ a lower RPM than Cobra
Weight: 3466 <--weighs more (only +100lbs difference)
Gear Ratios:
1st Gear: 2.66 <--loses
2nd Gear: 1.78 <--loses
3rd Gear: 1.3 <--bout the same
4th Gear: 1 <--same
5th Gear: 0.74
6th Gear: 0.5
Final Drive: 3.42 <--better

1996 Camaro SS, CARS.com
&
1996 Camaro SS, Autotrader.com

1996 Cobra
Horsepower: 305-hp @ 5800rpm <--less power @ a higher RPM than SS
Torque: 300 @ 4800rpm <--less power @ a higher RPM than SS
Weight: 3355 <--weighs less
Gear Ratios:
1st Gear: 3.37 <--better
2nd Gear: 1.99 <--better
3rd Gear: 1.33 <--bout the same
4th Gear: 1 <--same
5th Gear: 0.67
Final Drive: 3.08 <--loses

1996 Cobra, Autotrader.com

¼ mile times:

1996 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 SS

13.8
random ¼ mile times list

13.46@106.48
MUSCLECARCLUB.com


1996 Ford Mustang Cobra

14.0
random ¼ mile times list

Overall the Camaro weighs a bit more but beats the Cobra in overall gearing and power. I couldn’t find more ¼ mile times but it looks to me like the 1996 Camaro SS was a better ¼ mile car than the 1996 Cobra. And if you want to bring “traction issues into this, The ‘96 SS had P275/40ZR17 while the Cobra had a skinnier tire at only a P245/45ZR17.

I think your wrong about this Cosby.And you cant say I have a GM bias because I own and love both of the Cars in my Sig. You have an obvious bias towards Ford.

And I also going to chime in in PacerX’s defense. This guy knows his $hit. Respect that he might know something you don’t. He hasn’t lead anyone here wrong before. Plus he has a pretty funny sense of humor.

 

Any first year mechanical engineering student knows that torque is more important than horsepower for flat out accelleration... especially at a lower rpm range.

I'll take 325 lbf-ft @ 2400 rpm versus 300 lbf-ft @ 4800 rpm any day of the week. (How many of you frequently drive at 4800 rpm anyway??? ... ok maybe a few of you closet tuners with high reving four bangers, but for us American V8 owners... )

This Ford v. Chevy battle is freaking hilarious though. My kid has a modified '96 Mustang GT with an S-1 Vortec supercharger. I'll admit that thing is a blast to drive and accellerates hard, however even with all its mods it still has less RWHP than my bone stock '95 Z/28.

But then my son is now 17-1/2 and has "grown-up". We're currently building up a '67 Camaro to replace his Mustang. It brings a tear to my eye seeing how much he's matured.

BTW... I'm well over 24... and I drive a CAMARO!

 

Exactly!

And I'm a second year ME student.

 

I knew that! I'm a CE grad, but I took just enough ME courses to keep me in trouble.

 

A stock 96-98 Cobra will beat a stock LT1 for sure. Especially top end.

 

Who would have thought - even five years ago - that we would be in a "MY 600 HP FORD IS BETTER THAN YOUR 600 HP CHEVY" pissing match interlaced with the supposed "weaknesses" of 390HP Cobra Mustangs compared to 410HP Corvettes? We haven't even thrown 150MPH turbocharged Neons into the fire. These are glory days, indeed.

I'm still throughly enjoying my ~290 HP.

 

You do know that the LT1 cars ranged from 275HP to 310HP right?

 

For sure? I took out a paper-plated GT about a year ago with over 90,000 miles on the clock of my Z (man did he feel dumb throwing revvs at me with his new baby )...and the newer 4.6s are definitely stouter than those of the mid-90's...I'm not saying it isn't possible but the LT1 in its day was certainly no slouch.

 

Oh my - some of ya'll took the bait. Oh well...

BTW, are then any real drag racers here?

stars1010...your post is too long to quote in pieces, so I'll take the main parts out and go through where I believe you to be in error.

Kindly tell me how and why having power at a lower rpm is beneficial? Perhaps because it *feels* better on the street? If that is your metric, then ok. If accelerating as quickly as possible from point a to point b is your metric, then you are mistaken and/or misguided. Got gearing?

See above.

The (rated) HP difference between the cars is a whopping 5 HP. A 100 lb difference in weight will EASILY make up for that. If you want to get back on the torque issue, I suggest first reading this LINK.

Gearing. First, the Cobra had 3.27s, not 3.08s. However, that difference is minor. Second, to get the effective gearing, you should multiply the tranny gear by the rear gear (then factor in tire diameter - which is mute in this discussion, as both cars you similar height tires). Thus, you come up with the following:

Read columns as Cobra gearing / F-body gearing

1st - 11.02 / 9.10
2nd - 6.51 / 6.09
3rd - 4.35 / 4.45
4th - 3.27 / 3.42

So what's the point? 2 points, actually. First, the DOHC car will only use the first 3 gears going through the 1/4 mile. The F-body *might* get into 4th, but it will be rather irrelevant (the last 100 ft of the 1/4 mile is basically pointless as far as ET reduction). As such, the gearing comparison now shows a definate advantage for the Cobra.

Second, you spend far more time in the first half of a 1/4 mile than in the last half. As such, improvements here will show up much more pronounced than improvements elsewhere in the track. This is where the 1st gear advantage (and to a lesser extent, the 2nd gear advantage) really helps the Cobra.

The 1/4 mile times you listed are nice, but I can use my own 98 (same mechanically as a 96) Cobra (sold 3 years ago) for the comparison. Bone stock, it ran 13.6 @ 104 mph with a horid 2.18 60 ft. I think that compares pretty well to just about any bone stock LT1 you'll ever find.

It should be noted that I am not a magazine racer.

LOL. And you know this because it is the Ford threads that I normally get involved with? Sure. BTW, I've owned almost as many F-bodys as Mustangs. Shock? 74 Formula, 85 Z28, 99 T/A. Also, if you must know, I think the LS1 is just about the best mass-produced performance engine ever built. In fact, I've said many times in other Forums that my Cobra would be damned near perfect if it came from the factory with a live axle and an LS1.

Yup. Biased. That's me.

(PS....you're welcome to believe as you wish)

Once again, if he knows his stuff then good for him. If you like it, then good for you and everybody else that says the same. And he likely knows a LOT more about many of these subject than I do - I never claimed otherwise. However, that alone will not earn my respect.

Ok. And please tell me the definition of torque and then the definition of HP. Also, tell me how they relate to each other. Finally, answer this simple question:

2 cars weigh the same, but use 2 different engines. Both have optimum gearing for those engines (Typical street-style tranny....ie....T56, T5, T45, etc). Both have similar appearing torque curves, but the peak numbers are significantly different. Car #1 makes a peak of 350 lb/ft torque @ 2500 rpm. Car #2 makes a peak of 325 lb/ft torque @ 5000 rpm. Torque drops off at the same rate past the peak.

Given what you know, which car has the potential to cover the 1/4 mile quicker?

BTW, did you pass your first year of mechanical engineering?

Depends on the purpose. If you just want a fun car that feels good at low rpm, then you are 100% correct. If you want to accelerate quickly, then you want that torque at a higher rpm. For a great explanation why, apply those numbers to the formula for HP and see how much power your making.

Please see my quote about passing the first year of ME school.

 

Yeah dumba$$, how do you think I made it to my second year?

Your not worth arguing with...this wont go anywhere.

 

Sorry you took offense. I'll edit that silly comment out if it will make you feel better. I'd like to hear your response, please.

 

Ok let me finish my movie...

 

With the new GT already in limited production, the war is over. I will believe it when GM has the ***** to build such a car.

 

Until it's in production and can outrun the GT, GM doesn't have anything. Ford is using this car as an image tool, they want to make it faster than anything in or below it's class. The Z06 is a great car as is, but off the showroom floor it can't compete with the GT.

 

Yeah, we will just have a 500+ hp Lightning and Cobra around by then I'm waiting for GM to drop the ball and say "to hell with it" like they did with the F-body and the Caprice leaving Ford to have both markets. If they don't then great, competition breeds ecxcellence.