A couple of old SVT items
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Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 917
From: Lexington, KY
Re: A couple of old SVT items
Originally Posted by ProudPony
I've stayed out of this until here. NOW, we are getting to the hard core of pricing and desireability.
guionM - I'll buy you a beer for this one!
Sounds strangely familiar to me... this subject.
All brand-bias aside, my feelings are that Ford and DCX are the two companies with the most excitement and buzz going on right now - bar all others. Their basic cars are showing pizazz and passion - especially passion. They are putting out some cars that have a "wow" factor when you see them. They stop people at car shows. They make you pull into a dealership to look. They peak curiosity.
They are both catering to niche markets with special editions and performance units, almost across all models. The SRT series that are already coming out and the upcoming SVT models are all moves in the right direction IMO. And while I'm piping out opinion, I do NOT think that the Chevy brand will adequately compete against SVT and SRT with a simple "SS" badge kit. I would like to see Chevy implement a special group and perform total package developments for some special editions like the other companies. I have to admit, Chrysler beat Ford (and others) to the punch with their current roll-out of SRT products - despite Ford killing the Viper for the reign as "Supercar King", they have let DCX take the top seat with the SRT-10 and others in the absence of the Lightning, Cobra (and Focus) for another year.
I think Ford has done a ship-load of market research and alignment, and has a strategy that is well-structured for the future of the company. SVT, Shelby, Eddie Bauer, and a slew of aftermarket tuners are all key roles in that strategy, as are the everyday bread and butter vehicles straight from Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury. In particular, I'd keep me eye on Mercury and Lincoln over the next 12-18 months.
Actually - I do. If SVT introduces a version of ANY Lincoln, it should be of AMG-quality... or don't even bother. The trick will be for Ford to monitor SVT and the new performance group so that quality and service are nothing less than excellent, whether it is an SVT Mustang, SVT Five-Hundred, SVT Aviator, or SVT LS. You don't want to risk public opinion that SVT is "cheap" since it's label also shows up on less-expensive cars than a Lincoln (even though a $38k Mustang is hardly "cheap" in my book).
guionM - I'll buy you a beer for this one!
Sounds strangely familiar to me... this subject.
All brand-bias aside, my feelings are that Ford and DCX are the two companies with the most excitement and buzz going on right now - bar all others. Their basic cars are showing pizazz and passion - especially passion. They are putting out some cars that have a "wow" factor when you see them. They stop people at car shows. They make you pull into a dealership to look. They peak curiosity.
They are both catering to niche markets with special editions and performance units, almost across all models. The SRT series that are already coming out and the upcoming SVT models are all moves in the right direction IMO. And while I'm piping out opinion, I do NOT think that the Chevy brand will adequately compete against SVT and SRT with a simple "SS" badge kit. I would like to see Chevy implement a special group and perform total package developments for some special editions like the other companies. I have to admit, Chrysler beat Ford (and others) to the punch with their current roll-out of SRT products - despite Ford killing the Viper for the reign as "Supercar King", they have let DCX take the top seat with the SRT-10 and others in the absence of the Lightning, Cobra (and Focus) for another year.
I think Ford has done a ship-load of market research and alignment, and has a strategy that is well-structured for the future of the company. SVT, Shelby, Eddie Bauer, and a slew of aftermarket tuners are all key roles in that strategy, as are the everyday bread and butter vehicles straight from Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury. In particular, I'd keep me eye on Mercury and Lincoln over the next 12-18 months.
Actually - I do. If SVT introduces a version of ANY Lincoln, it should be of AMG-quality... or don't even bother. The trick will be for Ford to monitor SVT and the new performance group so that quality and service are nothing less than excellent, whether it is an SVT Mustang, SVT Five-Hundred, SVT Aviator, or SVT LS. You don't want to risk public opinion that SVT is "cheap" since it's label also shows up on less-expensive cars than a Lincoln (even though a $38k Mustang is hardly "cheap" in my book).
All brand-bias aside, my feelings are that Ford and DCX are the two companies with the most excitement and buzz going on right now - bar all others.
What do they offer right now that is exciting...the Mustang, the Five Hundred, the truck lineup? 
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 262
From: Oranje County
Re: A couple of old SVT items
Originally Posted by ProudPony
You don't want to risk public opinion that SVT is "cheap" since it's label also shows up on less-expensive cars than a Lincoln (even though a $38k Mustang is hardly "cheap" in my book).
Personally, I wouldn't mind a sedan SVT Focus with decent HP.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,029
Re: A couple of old SVT items
Originally Posted by steve2002
they produced a weak Focus SVT and canned it for (I guess) lack of interest. :/
Personally, I wouldn't mind a sedan SVT Focus with decent HP.
Personally, I wouldn't mind a sedan SVT Focus with decent HP.
BTW, I'm not talking out of my **** on the SVT Focus either, I bought one for my wife a while back. Instead of getting rid of it when I bought her the Mariner, I got rid of the WRX. That should say something about what I think of it. Also, there wasn't a lack of interest. SVT sold thousands of these things every year.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 574
From: Richmond, TX
Re: A couple of old SVT items
The real deal matchup of 2005 for performance is gonna be
380hp Mustang Mach1 vs 400hp GTO vs 425hp Charger
And I have a sneaking suspicion that the GTO is gonna get smoked in that showdown.
380hp Mustang Mach1 vs 400hp GTO vs 425hp Charger
And I have a sneaking suspicion that the GTO is gonna get smoked in that showdown.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 574
From: Richmond, TX
Re: A couple of old SVT items
Originally Posted by PaperTarget
What was weak about it? It was built mostly for handling, not hp. If you can name one source at SVT that said it was built for hp and drag racing, please let me know. The SVT Focus was built to handle, and handle it does. The SVT Focus handily takes down many cars at the autox events around this country every year. The interior is very nice and has features found on $30,000 cars. Not bad for $17,000. I do agree it needed more power, but not to compete with the drag racers, but for track events (not autox which it excels at). Also, as had been mentioned many times, SVT dropped the Focus to move upscale. You'll find out about it's replacement in a couple of years. But if you're curious as to what it'll be like, look at the new MazdaSpeed6 for clues.
BTW, I'm not talking out of my **** on the SVT Focus either, I bought one for my wife a while back. Instead of getting rid of it when I bought her the Mariner, I got rid of the WRX. That should say something about what I think of it. Also, there wasn't a lack of interest. SVT sold thousands of these things every year.
BTW, I'm not talking out of my **** on the SVT Focus either, I bought one for my wife a while back. Instead of getting rid of it when I bought her the Mariner, I got rid of the WRX. That should say something about what I think of it. Also, there wasn't a lack of interest. SVT sold thousands of these things every year.
The Focus was weak compared to the competition. Sorry but when everyone else is packing a blower and you show up to the gunfight with an N/A knife, it gets ugly quick. They did the right thing canning it.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Re: A couple of old SVT items
Originally Posted by BigDarknFast
You and guionM, I swear... I just said they are great looking, in the same breath! 
How can it be misconstrued? Those two cars, in particular - LOOK GREAT in my opinion. Sure the two-door Cobalt looks better to the crew here (wow - surprise!). But I believe the target market for these cars will like them very much. THAT was my point.
How can it be misconstrued? Those two cars, in particular - LOOK GREAT in my opinion. Sure the two-door Cobalt looks better to the crew here (wow - surprise!). But I believe the target market for these cars will like them very much. THAT was my point.
"Gotta have" looks will not sell cars in those segments; value, quality and features will. Try to think beyond your enthusiast mind set...
The Impala and 300 base & Touring are in the same price & market segment, but the 300 is making the news and is selling without incentives beyond the $1000 from Chrysler finance.
The public is buying Toyotas & Hondas more out of habit than clear quality advantage. Domestics are trying to compete with rebates, give aways and incentives (GM is just the most extreme case) and it's obviously not working. The only proven thing that works is creating a desire through design.
I cannot believe you're still not getting this. The crashworthiness is due to the DESIGN. That is MORE important to some than the almighty looks.
Wrong - again. How do you know what made me go sign for a car? I happen to like the looks of the new Prix, better in fact than the stale 98 GTP I had in the past.
Why did you buy the Grand Prix GTP over the Impala SS or Buick Regal? All had the supercharged same engine (it takes very little to eliminate Impala's HP deficit without voiding the warranty), all had roughly the same price (Chevy was even marginally cheaper), and all were the same car when you strip off the sheetmetal and the interior.
Yet you went for the GP over the Impala SS & the Buick Regal GS.
Why's that?
Last edited by guionM; Dec 30, 2004 at 11:52 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,402
From: Toronto, ON Canada
Re: A couple of old SVT items
Originally Posted by ProudPony
All brand-bias aside, my feelings are that Ford and DCX are the two companies with the most excitement and buzz going on right now - bar all others. Their basic cars are showing pizazz and passion - especially passion. They are putting out some cars that have a "wow" factor when you see them. They stop people at car shows. They make you pull into a dealership to look. They peak curiosity.
The excitement created for Ford is among enthusiasts in the know who know what's coming up and what the deal with SVT is. The average public? Short of the Mustang, they don't see any passion or excitement with Ford.
In particular, I'd keep me eye on Mercury and Lincoln over the next 12-18 months.
I am not excited at all about Lincoln's introduction of Zephyr, a rather strage movement of FWD into luxury. Its looks are not even consistent with Lincolns. The only cool Lincoln car right now is the LS.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,139
From: Commerce, mi, USA
Re: A couple of old SVT items
So explain to me why the Aztek didn't sell so well?
Was it because of poor crash-worthiness?
Was it because of poor crash-worthiness?
http://www.jdpower.com/awards/indust...sp?StudyID=563
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,139
From: Commerce, mi, USA
Re: A couple of old SVT items
The excitement created for Ford is among enthusiasts in the know who know what's coming up and what the deal with SVT is. The average public? Short of the Mustang, they don't see any passion or excitement with Ford.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,139
From: Commerce, mi, USA
Re: A couple of old SVT items
The public is buying Toyotas & Hondas more out of habit than clear quality advantage.
5 star Pontiac Aztec.
made that point in every, post I made on this thread: Grand Prix is the exception. Although style is subjective (and risky) Grand Prix is a great looking sedan. Everyone who I know that has bought one intended to buy one.
Why did you buy the Grand Prix GTP over the Impala SS or Buick Regal? All had the supercharged same engine (it takes very little to eliminate Impala's HP deficit without voiding the warranty), all had roughly the same price (Chevy was even marginally cheaper), and all were the same car when you strip off the sheetmetal and the interior.
Yet you went for the GP over the Impala SS & the Buick Regal GS.
Why did you buy the Grand Prix GTP over the Impala SS or Buick Regal? All had the supercharged same engine (it takes very little to eliminate Impala's HP deficit without voiding the warranty), all had roughly the same price (Chevy was even marginally cheaper), and all were the same car when you strip off the sheetmetal and the interior.
Yet you went for the GP over the Impala SS & the Buick Regal GS.
Thanks BTW for your compliments on the Grand Prix.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,029
Re: A couple of old SVT items
Originally Posted by BigBlueCruiser
The Focus was weak compared to the competition. Sorry but when everyone else is packing a blower and you show up to the gunfight with an N/A knife, it gets ugly quick. They did the right thing canning it.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 599
From: Inland Empire, CA
Re: A couple of old SVT items
Originally Posted by BigBlueCruiser
The Focus was weak compared to the competition. Sorry but when everyone else is packing a blower and you show up to the gunfight with an N/A knife, it gets ugly quick. They did the right thing canning it.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,029
Re: A couple of old SVT items
Originally Posted by BigDarknFast
Eh? superchargers deliver boost at a wide variety of thottle and RPM.
Either way, you've still failed to show me any competition and what they're competing in.