You're comparing a $16,500 car to a $21,995 car. That's a pretty big difference in price.

The TRD supercharger is $3000. I'd like to know how you got the tC from the base $16,465 up to $21,856 when adding $1345 and then "some doodads".

Cobalt LS Coupe with MP3 Radio and sunroof options starts at $18,825, btw. And that's with smaller wheels than the tC, and without the panoramic sunroof. The base of the LS Coupe is still $17,080, $600 more than the tC. Why? What do I get for the extra money I'm spending? The pleasure of driving a Chevrolet instead of one of those damned Japanese cars? The non-supercharged Cobalt is also 145hp and 155tq, which is down from 160/163 on the tC. I also have 4 wheel disc brakes, gotta get the supercharged SS to get discs on the Cobalt, otherwise I still have rear drums (!!).

I'm missing the tremendous value on the N/A Cobalt that I am missing out on with my car. The supercharged SS? I could break down how it compares to the Neon SRT-4 for the money, or the WRX, if you'd like. how about you do the legwork and let me know why the Cobalt SS is more for my money thant he SRT-4 or the WRX Sedan.

 

I understand the inference, but in all earnesty, brackets are the thing at most local strips. In that sense theres a number of vehicles which customers could opt for from all manufacturers. GM is pretty competitive in the upper ranges of drag racing on a national scale.

What GM doesn't have is a Camaro, and that's what most of the bitterness here is about.

 

So true.
For many of us, (including me), Camaro is the cornerstone of the GM product line. Remedy that, and we can forgive GM of many of it's sins.

 

I added some features to make a Scion TC more like my car... first I chose the auto trans version since my wifey demands that. Then I added: G1 Ground Effects Kit $995; P7 XM Satellite Radio $695; BE Side & Curtain Airbags $650; TRD Performance Exhaust $525; V5 SCION Security $469; 7S VSE Subwoofer by Bazooka Mobile Audio $449; R7 Rear Lip Spoiler $385; 26 Carbon Fiber Engine Cover by OBX Racing Sports $229; CF Hybrid Carpet Floor Mats/Cargo Mat $145 (ouch!); and GN Cargo Net $49. Still no GTP
Installed? If not - add another $1000-$1500 for the install.
I haven't done that analysis - and who knows, maybe the WRX is more desirable in un-quantifiable ways to some since it is AWD. One thing I am convinced of though... the Cobalt SS looks MUCH better than either of them.

 

 

That v6 in the Mazda6? That's a duratec. That platform? You'll soon see it on the Ford Fusion, the mazda6's new sister car. That platform and 4cyl in the Mazda3 can be found in and were co-developed with Volvo and Ford. That Tribute and B200 truck are rebadged Ford's. It's no secret that Ford and Mazda are very well involved with each other with them sharing things from engines to platforms. So while they are not the same company, they have a lot in common. But you are right in them being 2 seperate companies and Ford owning only 33% (which is a controlling stake btw) and not the whole company. Hence why Mazda sales are figured seperatly from the rest of Ford Motor Co.

But as far as performance vehicles, there's lots of options throughout Ford Motor Co (Ford, Lincoln, Merc, Jag, Land Rover, Volvo, and Aston Martin). More than you may think.

BigDarknFast, curious....how much did you pay for your GTP?

 

Umm, no.
I'm growing weary of this idea - - "GM is PAYING or BRIBING buyers with rebates". What is this? Rebates are nothing more than a discount from sticker. They're the mechanism GM uses to adjust supply and demand in a fickle market. Too many here are quick to criticize them when in fact few here (if any?) know the resultant profit levels on the models in question. In the case of the Impala, yes it's about value - but clearly there are also some who seek the car out since it's 'right' for them and fits the image of what they want to drive. The Impala has a strong identity and it does appeal to some; and for the performance-minded, the Impala SS has a little more to boot. As for GM's compact and midsize cars, oh yes I am arguing they are great looking. Cobalt, LaCrosse, not attractive? I think they look fine... and the Cobalt I believe will be a hit even without consideration of its innovations and options.
...Guess my comment about the Impala's 5-star crashworthiness and how that resonates with buyers went right past you...
That Turbo 4 on the Saab 9-2X? That's the same engine and driveline from the Subaru WRX wagon. That platform on the 9-2X? Again, the same as the WRX. GM's been there, done that
I've already said they made me a deal that was worth my while... and that's all I'm going to say about it. Not with this sassy crowd here

 

Afraid you overpaid? Or that you could get 04 GTO for less money?

just kidding

Well, people respond to incentives. I was thinking recently whether GM is "losing" money by offering incentives. Last I checked, their MSRP is not that competitive, it's sometimes a little higher than competition's. Did they calculate incentives into MSRP? Wholly, or partially?

Whatever the case, GM appears to be more on a mission to infiltrate the market first and foremost, and making profit is secondary.

That's the problem - they look "just fine". LaCrosse/Allure is about 10 years late to the party with its design. It's a bloated jelly bean, reminiscent of the 1990's era.

Cobalt? Attractive? Not the 4-door. The interior appears rather nice, but even there they use very hard, unpleasant to the feel plastic on top of the dashboard.

The only Cobalt that's great looking is the coupe and especially the SS. The SS appears to be a winner in many ways: design, styling, performance.

 

so n one thinks AMG vs. SVT will be a future comparison?

 

As you point out the Cobalt and LeCrosse "look fine", again proving my point. "Looking fine" and "Gotta have" are 2 different things.

As for rebates, lets be honest here. Rebates sole purpose is to keep cars moving off showrooms. If the cars aren't moving, you increase the rebate. If someone is pulling sales from you with a better product, increase the rebate. Midsize sedans are the most stable selling cars in the market. If you need rebates to move them, there is a problem.

Once again you re-prove my point. 5 star crashworthiness. You have yet to say that Impala is a great looking car, let alone it being on par with some of GM's cars that the public actually wanted to buy because it looked great.

And in saying this, you've again proven my point. It's the deal you were after. It's the rebates, the additional equptment, but as far as the car was concerned, as long as it wasn't Aztek-ugly, you simply didn't care. That's my whole point in all this.

GM is spending alot of money in rebates, option give-aways, and so-called "limited" discounts, which hurt the bottom line. That discount you got was financed by that $70,000 Chevrolet Suburban someone brought at a Cadillac dealer that cost GM something like $20-25,000 to make. Where if GM took more of a chance with their styling, they wouldn't have to do that (or at least make more money so we could have more enthusiast cars).

Again, this isn't about enthusiast cars. From what I see & know, GM is right on target. If everything pans out, GM is going to be THE performance & enthusiast's company.

But as far as middle america with their 1.5 kids and a $100,000 home in the suburbs, outside of minivans, suvs, and trucks, or as for the 1st time car buyer that isn't into coupes, I think GM is still putting too much into "value" and not enough into "I want this car" (Pontiac Grand Prix being the exception).

That's my whole point.

 

Isn't that controlling interest?

 

Nope
I asked the wifey about getting a GTO. It was a short conversation. She: "How many doors?" Me: "umm... two" She: "NO." (me)
This is a key question and I appreciate you mentioning it.
You and guionM, I swear... I just said they are great looking, in the same breath! How can it be misconstrued? Those two cars, in particular - LOOK GREAT in my opinion. Sure the two-door Cobalt looks better to the crew here (wow - surprise!). But I believe the target market for these cars will like them very much. THAT was my point.
"Gotta have" looks will not sell cars in those segments; value, quality and features will. Try to think beyond your enthusiast mind set...
This site needs a *yawn* emoticon...
I cannot believe you're still not getting this. The crashworthiness is due to the DESIGN. That is MORE important to some than the almighty looks.
Wrong - again. How do you know what made me go sign for a car? I happen to like the looks of the new Prix, better in fact than the stale 98 GTP I had in the past. The deal - sure that matters a lot. It's the value equation. But there were some features I really wanted (like the LOOK of the Blue-Green Crystal paint (uh-oh - is that a feature, or looks??? )) and the side bags, remote start, and nav.
Finally. Something we agree on!

 

Yes, as was mentioned earlier. BTW, Mazdas are built in the same factory and I believe on the same line as the Mustang.

 

I've stayed out of this until here. NOW, we are getting to the hard core of pricing and desireability.

guionM - I'll buy you a beer for this one!
Sounds strangely familiar to me... this subject.

All brand-bias aside, my feelings are that Ford and DCX are the two companies with the most excitement and buzz going on right now - bar all others. Their basic cars are showing pizazz and passion - especially passion. They are putting out some cars that have a "wow" factor when you see them. They stop people at car shows. They make you pull into a dealership to look. They peak curiosity.
They are both catering to niche markets with special editions and performance units, almost across all models. The SRT series that are already coming out and the upcoming SVT models are all moves in the right direction IMO. And while I'm piping out opinion, I do NOT think that the Chevy brand will adequately compete against SVT and SRT with a simple "SS" badge kit. I would like to see Chevy implement a special group and perform total package developments for some special editions like the other companies. I have to admit, Chrysler beat Ford (and others) to the punch with their current roll-out of SRT products - despite Ford killing the Viper for the reign as "Supercar King", they have let DCX take the top seat with the SRT-10 and others in the absence of the Lightning, Cobra (and Focus) for another year.

I think Ford has done a ship-load of market research and alignment, and has a strategy that is well-structured for the future of the company. SVT, Shelby, Eddie Bauer, and a slew of aftermarket tuners are all key roles in that strategy, as are the everyday bread and butter vehicles straight from Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury. In particular, I'd keep me eye on Mercury and Lincoln over the next 12-18 months.

Actually - I do. If SVT introduces a version of ANY Lincoln, it should be of AMG-quality... or don't even bother. The trick will be for Ford to monitor SVT and the new performance group so that quality and service are nothing less than excellent, whether it is an SVT Mustang, SVT Five-Hundred, SVT Aviator, or SVT LS. You don't want to risk public opinion that SVT is "cheap" since it's label also shows up on less-expensive cars than a Lincoln (even though a $38k Mustang is hardly "cheap" in my book).

 

So explain to me why the Aztek didn't sell so well?
Was it because of poor crash-worthiness?