My apologies are offered. Got you confused with someone else, which is what I get for not reading thoroughly.

But my point is still valid that the poll is junk, regardless of who's opinion it ends up supporting.

 

OK.

My whole idea was to get opinions here for the inside workers to see what we thought on this subject.

 

Scientific or not, to one degree or another, almost three quarters of those who responded want Camaro to be smaller than the '05 Mustang.

 

How about NOT, which means the results are irrelevant. You just can't draw conclusions about the larger community from this "poll".

All you can say is of the 65 that responded...blaa blaa blaa. I hardly think those 65 are representative of all possible Camaro buyers.

Besides, most still voted for a car larger than what you want. Good work trying to spin it into a win though!

 

I'm just going off the numbers. The poll may be flawed, and it's a small sample from a biased audience, fair enough....but those are the numbers of this poll.

Not spinning anything.

I wonder what a more scientific poll from the general populace would show. Like from a 19 yo female who's considering a V6 Mustang, Mazda 3 or Civic.

 

Again, the length ranges are almost irrelevant in a poll like this.

Yes, you can say that more voted "for a car smaller than the new Mustang"... well, that's because THREE of the FOUR options were SMALLER THAN THE CURRENT MUSTANG!!!

If you slide those length-range numbers up a notch, that statement would undoubtedly be false.

Basically... the most realistic thing you can take from this poll is that, of the people who answered, more people want a Camaro that is bigger, but not huge.

Look at the length ranges as the following:

Small
Sort of Small
Bigger
Even Bigger


All that happened was that people voted that they want a Camaro that hedges to the bigger side a tad...


(See how you can spin things in either direction on stuff like this?)

 

I disagree. Not only are the length referrences NOT irrelevant, They are the poll. True, smaller than '05 Mustang were 3 out of the 4 choices....but this is an audience which is very educated on the subject...and they freely made their choices.

Frankly, I didn't expect this poll to go this way. This is a very 4th gen biased population, here in this forum. If there ever was a group....anywhere on the planet....which would vote for a large Camaro...it's here. Yet the overwhelming majority voted for a car smaller than Mustang.

That....I believe...is significant.

 

It's not unlike having the following poll:

Pick your favorite number:

A) 21-30
B) 31-40
C) 41-50
D) 51-60

If the %'s were the same as this poll, you could say it's obvious that no one likes a number over 51 (even though it got the second most votes!!! )... yet, there is no option for 61-70, 71-80, etc.... show your logic is skewed.

A more accurate way to look at these length votes is:

1st place: Bigger
2nd place: Biggest
3rd place: Smaller
4th Place: Smallest

Anyway, it doesn't matter... anyone who bases their car buying soley on the exact dimensional length of the car without taking into account other proportions or features, quite frankly, is a fool.

 

Nope.


I've drawn my conclusions, you're free to draw your own.

 

That's fine and all....

The frustrating part is:

When you skew the material in front of you to try to "prove" your point, when the fact is, most of this stuff can be taken in a number of ways....

Or when you post your own poll and word it so biasedly to persuade people to vote in your favor...

 

So you are saying that if we had another two options, let's say 190 - 192 and 192.5 to 194, we would have better results? Perhaps, but maybe not as much as you expect.

If someone wants a Camaro 190+, what woudl they do? Would they not vote at all, or would they vote 188 - 190, a size that is closest to their preferred size?

I think it's a little unreasonable to expect huge number of votes to be above 190. Some of such votes would probably be taken away from 188-190 category.

 

Irrelevant? Irrelevant to what?

At the same time, people who like their cars more than commuter appliances, those who understand what their car is and what it stands for, are better categorized as enthusiasts, and this place is where many enthusiasts live. A large percentage of Camaro owners probably could not care less about the length of the car - it's the looks and overall proportions that matter to them. They like it - they buy it. They don't like it - they don't buy it.

So to truly ask what a Camaro is and is not, and what it ought to be - while having appeal to the general populace, you really should consult the enthusiasts. It's a small group, but probably the loudest group and the group that is hardest to please.

Is this site a good representative of enthusiasts? I would say yes. And while 65 votes is not much, it is hardly irrelevant. Irrelevant would be 4 votes. Perhaps 10 votes. 65 votes is enough to form some sort of opinion, and if anything, should influence either: 1. Base your conclusion from the current poll. Or 2. Conduct a more thorough research on the subject.

 

Just how statistically significant is 65 SELF SELECTING participants in an online poll from a website that has over 40,000 members? Add to that the membership of LS1.com, LS1tech.com, LS2.com, camaros.net, all the readers of GMHTP that are NOT online and all other enthusiasts which are NOT internet savvy, but certainly do care.

The fact is even if a Z-score (a kind of statistical test) shows 65 of maybe 150,000-200,000 people can be significant (.003-.004%), this was not a random sample, and it is therefore scientifically useless. So, again, I will say, from a methodological standpoint, it would be an error to assume the results of this poll reflect the opinions of the larger community as a whole. Keep in mind the fact the poll results skewed more to my preference...i.e. the poll tends to support my views, but I still think it is crap.

This poll is the internet equivalent of junk science. You can create a survey and frame the questions and responses in such a way as to steer to a desired result. This is called push-polling. Its junk, and I absolutely refuse to take anything from this poll to make assumptions about the desires of the larger Camaro enthusiast community.

GM would be well served to generate its own, scientifically valid, survey, perhaps using a random sample of 500 using registered owners of F-bodies. You could ask questions to get at how much of an enthusiast they are, and then their preferences. You therefore could draw safe conclusions about Camaro owners in general and juxtapose that against what the enthusiasts prefer.

Some of you don't seem to grasp the point that without a random sample, any survey you do is total garbage. We can make assumptions all day about what this poll may mean, but it is just speculation as there is no scientific validity to back up those assumptions.

I'm half tempted to pull out my Psychology Statistics textbook and run a Z-score just to see how significant this poll would be. Any stats students or statisticians in the house?

A good, scientifically valid survey may very well prove out Charlie's preference. If 51% of the enthusiasts wanted the smaller or smallish car ~184" vs the 188 that I find ideal and up to 192 I find acceptable, then I would accept those results and shut up so we could move on.

 

What a lame poll.

I chose 188-190" however I would accept up to 195".

If anyone wants smaller than that... go buy a friggin Cobalt.

FWIW, the Camaro has NEVER been shorter than 185"... and the last time it was THAT small was 36 years ago!

P.S. The height should be 49-51 inches. Anything taller just wouldn’t be
a Camaro.