Pacer, do me a favor bud.....let me handle the Z/28 branding.

The name Z/28 alone should imply "the complete performance package". It's a take it or leave proposition. Lets' not make it too complicated.

Besides...descriptive add-on modifiers, is more of an SS thing. Like SS350 or SS396.

Let's make Z/28, what it once was... a comprehensive performance package without the need for additional performance "add-ons".

 

The Catera platform was unsuitable for a performance-based coupe. Heck, it was unsuitable for the new CTS. Plus, you can't just pull volume out of thin air. There's only so many plants that could produce this platform and selling a volume Camaro on it would've been impossible.

How are we shaving 300 pounds off the GTO platform? You do remember how much had to be done to the C5 just to drop ~150 pounds for the Z06 right? I don't want a 3600 pound V8 Camaro. Been there, done that.

To be viable, the base Camaro better be considerably less than 30k!

 

Here are my suggested improvements to your list. I just want you to know I agree with every thing except for the Z28/SS part.

I think the Z28/SS should share their drivetrains.
The Z28 be the ***** out not for everyone performance car (manual only, the best seats ever, big wheels/brakes, ect). An affordable Z06.
The SS should be available with all the "creature comforts" (auto, t-tops, leather, rag top, ect.)

Both should have at least 400hp to compete with the Cobra.

The "Grand Touring" model should aim staight at the G35 (but V8 powered).

IMO a good base motor is the S/C V6 in the 04 GTP. This motor takes to modifications really well (a $100 pulley is worth @ least 20h.p.). It is also an inexpensive motor (less than an LS-1/LS-6).

 

I like where this is going...

I'd ditch the HF V6 idea though...I doubt it will happen. Granted, Camaro needs more sophistication next time around, but I'd bet far more on a HV 3.9...personally, I'd rather have it too. If they make it run nice and smooth, then there is no disadvantage...

 

K, bub, let's see a badge!

But I think there oughta be a way to delineate a 1LE car without having to crawl underneath.

 

We know where the available volume is.



Camaro will be a smaller car than GTO. Yeesh - lop the overhangs off the 4th gen and we're golden.



SOME Camaros need to be less than $30,000. SS's do not. If the last few years of the 4th gen showed anything, it was that Camaros with the proper equipment (i.e. an SS) CAN survive and sell north of $30,000.

The more I think about this, the "Berlinetta"/GT/LT idea is kinda growing on me... maybe even at a higher price than a stripper Z28.

 

Delineation?! We don't need no stinkin' delineation.


ALL Z/28's should have a 1LE suspension.

As far as the badge goes.....Doug Harden posted a pretty cool one a while back. (Even though it didn't have a slash )

 

I knew this was coming...



There MUST be some powertrain differences between a ~$33,000 car and a ~$26,000 car. It's gonna happen. So take your pick. Given the most likely scenarios, either you'll have to accept a ~$33,000 Z28 and sacrifice your ~$26,000 Z28, or let SS handle the top end of the market and accept a power difference.



1) Manual only - Not a chance.
2) Best seats ever - Nope. Won't get memory, may not have 8-way power, might not have leather, won't be heated.
3) Big wheels/brakes - Maybe if you buy a 1LE. Otherwise, won't happen.



No such thing.

Want absolutely world-class handling and performance, capable of matching up with the best sports cars made?

Well, then pony up $53,000.

"Joo want Z06? Joo pay for Z06."



If Camaro returns, there WILL be manual SS's.



Want a $26,000 Z28? Well, then you had better get used to the idea that there is going to be a more powerful, higher option content car at the top of the price structure. For the extra $6,000 - $9,000, the top car is going to have more power.



You just built a $35,000 mid-line car.

 

if 1le is an option like it always has been, then a badge would be worse
people would be sticking them on and pawning the car off as 1le
but i guess thats the same as sticking z28 and ss emblems on

 

Bro, let's be real...

All Z28's aren't going to get a 1LE package. A large part of the market (AHEM.... DRAG RACERS and non-nutty-gearhead Z28 buyers) aren't going to want it or the $1500-$2000 it's going to tack onto the car.

 

Well, I don't know. The 4th gen $23,000 Z/28 shared an engine with a fully loaded $38,000 SS.





Here's a perfect example of how SS and Z/28 can be differentiated.

For Z/28...I wouldn't need 8-way power or heat. Just a simple manually operated "driver's" seat. I would seriously consider farming this out to someone like Recaro.

The best seats I've ever owned, were the basic, manually operated ones , which Recaro designed for my old VW Corrado.

 

Yeah... I've seen enough fake SS's to choke a horse.

BUT... I think the 1LE package has enough mystique to warrant some badging - at least as much as WS6 did.

 

We can argue about the viability of Ram Air as a power-adder, but there were no 2002 Z28's with the lid or the SLP exhausts that I'm aware of. Note the addition of the 345hp package and the continuing rating of the SLP/ASC cars as having higher horsepower.

The performance argument comes down to the driver in many of those cases, but it is undeniable that the SS's with the lid and exhaust out-power the 2002 Z28's. We've all seen what a lid can do.



BINGO! We have a winner!

Now follow me here...

The Z28, as you describe, is a lower content vehicle. Therefore, it costs less. Buyers are willing to pay more in a package for more things - BUT buyers are not willing (in general) to allow a lower price, lower content car out-power their higher content, more expensive vehicle.

You bring up a VERY valid point. The pricing structure of pushing a Z28 down to $26,000 FORCES GM to decontent the car somewhat. To which, astute buyers will look at a $33,000 car and say:

"Well, it better have more power too..."

And they'll pay for BOTH.



Lemme put my old seat engineer hat on for a second....

8-way power with manual lumbar is more comfortable for a larger percentage of the population than a simple fore/aft track with a manual recliner and manual lumbar seat.

 

Well first off....maybe we ought to talk about what a 1LE type package would consist of. For $2K, I'd imagine we're talking about more than a handful of bushings and a thicker rear anti-sway bar.

If it's more comprehensive...like the 3rd gen 1LE, or even beyond...I'd pay a premium for that. And like I said...Z/28 should be a focused.."take it or leave it" package.

If there are people that it doesn't appeal to....that's no prob. It really doesn't or in fact shouldn't need to appeal to everyone...that's the whole point. And IMO that's also one key piece of the puzzle that would restore the Camaro brand name.

Drag racers can buy an SS if a Z/28 doesn't appeal to them.

 

Well, I'm not necessarilly on board with the idea of capping Z/28's price at $26k. When I say "decontented", I don't really mean a stripper with the cheapest possible materials. I mean content limited, in the same vein as the Z06....."option restricted" is a better term.

Also, I think there'll be some headroom for a more fully developed Z/28.

For one...C6 will have up to 500 hp and beyond, and if Camaro SS follows the same formula as before, fully optioned 5th gens should easily surpass $40K

I think a $30,000 Z/28 is not at all unreasonable as long as it is equipped correctly.