ohh and one thing..your on a Camaro site..tell them to get the *** in gear on the Camaro cus the time is running out..and not to keep it a secret..let the country know a new musclecar is comming to market

somoene had to throw it in.

 

Buickman, you still willing to email out this 20 points?

 

Oh ye of little knowledge...

Meccadeth has participated in our fairly regular "Open Issues" listing on particular cars, along with many others on this site.

Using a fairly standard industry format (much like a DFMEA... Google that one...) we go through a particular car top to bottom and list out all the things within it that need to be corrected and then HOW to correct them.

If the exercise was merely a set of "whining points" it would be useless, that's why I've ALWAYS required that a solution be concurrently proposed... BTW, that's a real-deal WORKABLE engineering/manufacturing solution. Now, some folks with valuable input around here aren't engineers, so we engineers help them out a bit because their input is very valuable.

Ummm... we don't hide these. We don't couch them in low-rent sales babbling. We don't CHARGE GM for the effort. We provide the issues in a coherent, useable format that the engineers are used to seeing so that they might fix them.

Nobody here is trying to make a buck off of them, either.

And there is where the rubber meets the road in this discussion.

If the idea is to help GM, there is no need for secrecy.

If the idea is to help GM, there is no need for compensation.

If the idea is to help GM, there is no need for "fluffy" language.

If the idea is to help GM, there is no need for puffing one's self up with a list of semi-accomplishments in an attempt to establish authority.



Now, and again I repeat, ANSWER THE QUESTIONS STATED PREVIOUSLY AND POST YOUR 20 POINTS ON THIS FORUM OR GO AWAY. I'll restate some of the questions:

How many of your sales by percentage are non-GMS, non-PEP and non-supplier discount?

How does this compare with, say... California?

Was Sherrif Joe Wilson advertising for PLW your idea?

What is your experience running any part of a large manufacturing corporation?

Since Flint is a captive Buick market, tell me how your experience applies to someone who has to consider other markets that are not captive?


Here's a kicker that I already know the answer to:

How does GM insert the voice of the customer into the engineering process more effectively than they currently are?

 

Wow, there's some hostility here! Someone comes along who (it appears) genuinely wants to help GM and all we can do is bitch about it. If what I've read about Buickman can be believed, I can't see why GM wouldn't at least listen to him and put his ideas to use.

PacerX, I really wonder what your intentions/motivations are here. It's almost as if it hurts you personally to even listen to this guy(?).

Interesting call for "no secrecy" from someone in the "have faith" brigade. Also, how many people here are working for nothing? Thought so... "Fluffy language"? Right back at ya!

And weren't you the one asking (no, demanding) qualifications. In a "what have you done for me lately" world, I think that's exactly what Buickman has provided.

PacerX, your point(s) would have more weight if you would can the hostility and maybe just debate him up front.

I'm not saying Buickman is the answer, but no one in a position of power at GM is either. It's time GM looked elsewhere. Actually, it's far past that time, and everyone here knows that, whether they say it aloud or not!

 

Let's keep it clean and friendly, guys.

 

Possibly because he's trying to sell them, maybe? Kinda sorta? Ya think?


'Cause something stinks, and if there's anything I hate, it's the hard sell.


Who said that I'm in the "Have Faith" Brigade? If anything, and if you ever took the time to read my posts, I'm the one who is on the record first with:

"Ain't happening by 2007 MY, they're out of time to tool."

"They've got to release now for 2008 MY or they aren't going to make it - not enough time."

"Zeta is inappropriate for a Camaro. The car would simply be too big."


I've burned HOURS ON END putting together those open issues listings for precisely ZERO compensation. No charge whatsoever. Do you have any idea what a reasonable consultation fee would be for those hours of work given my position now???

And it isn't just me, it's a TON of people on this board who've done the same things:

Gone into dealerships with clipboards and listed out the issues.

Categorized them.

Thought of solutions.

Submitted them on the format.

And the ALL did it for NO COMPENSATION WHATSOEVER. Only to help. That was the only reason, to help - and they should be commended for it. They should be thanked for taking the time and effort.


Erm, in case you're behind the power curve, lemme fill you in on something:

I'm the LAST person on this board anyone would accuse of using "fluffy language" to describe thoughts or flaws in the posts/opinions of others.


And personally, I think they're wholly inappropriate for someone who is claiming to have the "Plan" to save GM... which he won't even post on an open forum, BTW.


Where's the debate? There's nothing to debate! Post up the "Plan" on this board and let's go at it!

Now, ask yourself:

"Why won't he post it? Why is he insisting on all this faux secrecy? If it's that important, and a genuine effort to help GM, wouldn't it make sense to post it here?"

I'm reminded of a line from "The Princess Bride":

"Life is pain, Highness. Anybody who tells you differently is selling something."

 

Pacer, don't make this a personal thing with Buickman. Frankly, I don't care if he wants compensation or wants to offer what he has pro bono. I don't even care if he's a nice guy or a mean guy. As long as the forces of change can hit the Board right between the eyes.

And I would start with the Board. First, link every nickel of compensation for the 12 Board members to GM profits. There also seem to be some incestuous relationships with Board members and banking institutions.

Maybe the GM Board of Directors and Commitees doesn't quite bleed enough - personally - when GM takes a dive. We need to change that.

 

Had time to think a little more and re-read about the "20 points".

Buickman, how much do you really thik your plan is worth? As a stockholder and a proven salesman, you already have GM's ear and probally have an opportunity to sell yourself into a GM marketing position as many who started in sales have done. Why not go that route?

PacerX does have one point, though. Some people are going to be put off by what they see as bragging about themselves, so no matter how great an idea is, there's going to be that wall already erected.

Just food for thought.


BTW: You may want to bring up Z284ever's ideas above at the stockholder meeting.

 

Unfortunately, this is the exact answer I expected from you. I don't have all the answers and apparently that makes me wrong on all counts. However, you will not be able to dispense with GM's problems as easily. I applaud all your charity work on GM's behalf, but might I suggest you apply your energy somewhere else? It does not appear it's helping the General much. Which just proves my point all the more. If the current leadership is unwilling to listen and/or change. Maybe it's time they moved on.

PacerX, belive it or not, I actually agree with a lot of what you have to say, but at the same time, fearing change because of change itself is no way to go through life. In case you haven't noticed (and it actually looks like you have), GM is in need of major change and I"m not even talking about Camaro. They have many problems across the board as I'm sure you're aware. Staying with the status quo is NOT the answer.

At that, I'll leave you to this thread and continue my lurking.

 

All I am is a GM loyal consumer from the Great White North that happens to have a couple of GM shares in the retirement portfolio.

I e-mailed Buickman late last night and had the first 20 points from him within 6 minutes. I've read them, agree with some and am lukewarm towards others. I'm with Buickman and Z284ever that GM management and directors need to feel some heat at the upcoming shareholders meeting. Maybe Buickman is our best bet for that at the moment.

PacerX --- I appreciate your input and knowledge of the industry. At this point though I'd suggest you cut Buickman a little slack. If you were to read the first 20 points (Is it really that difficult to accept them by e-mail rather than having them posted here?) you'll see he's not suggesting that he can fix all of GM --- simply that there is room for improvement on the marketing side. I am first and foremost a consumer,and as such I'm in full agreement with him that GM can do a much better job of retaining and gaining customers, even with their current product mix. I believe you have a lot to contribute on the product side, and would support a move to have you made a director of GM as well.

 

Don't dare minimize what has happened here. Don't you throw the contributions folks have made by claiming they do nothing to cause change.

I know better.


Who fears change? I'm an advocate for it! I'm as harsh on GM as anyone around!

I will, however, provide this caution:

Change for the mere sake of change is worse than useless. It's counter-productive and leads to chaos.

Again, and I put in black and white once more:

Post it up here and let's go at it.


See, it removes the profit motive and opportunity if it hits an open forum with no restrictions and speaks volumes about the true intent of the author. Honestly, I'm pretty confident that the $5000 offer GM made was intended to do that very thing - to measure sincerity... and given the outcome of that little exercise, I think they got a pretty good feel for what the true intent was.


Not one of the questions posted previously has been answered. Not one.

 

what about my idea GuionM

and to me it sounds like someone has a soapbox and can address his issues, and the people here that have the same ideas and more but do it for nothing get pissed cus they dont get thier say..

 

Might be true if I expected something in return out of it, which I don't.

 

PacerX,

sure you do the betterment of GM..

 

Buickman, This is Colvindesign, I sent you the Word Doc with the changes I would suggest. I see you've made some friends here.

I can say this, I propose changes in the way business is done at GM, I know that Customer service is a huge thing, but did not think to include it in my plan because I think it is a given that it needs to change. I have bought a GM vehicle. I never will again. I have tried, but have walked away from more salesmen because of many reasons, some as simple as refusing to tell me the price of the car I test drove 4 hours before.

Difference is, I do not have a history with GM, or the sufficient past experience to talk to anyone with ***** and brains and power at GM, but I don't think there is anyone like that there anyway. I don't have the time either..... I have recently been put full time on a 5 year project.

I offer my advice to GM for free, like some others have stated, everyone has an idea, and some of them are crap. Some of them are increase sales, and some are increase quality, some are make better looking cars. Since my idea is mine, it is the best (just kidding). But it would take a lot of highly motivated, extremely intelligent people to implement, which I already think there is a shortage of in this world anyway.

If the salesmen all treated me like I am buying the 50th vehicle from them, I will buy 50 vehicles from them in my life. But they don't. They try to retire on every deal no matter what is best for the customer.

This more recent "market adjustment" phenom is to say it bluntly, retarded. That is no way to sell cars.

Anyway, I think you have the success rate to back up your plan. If you can teach your way of selling to 50% of the GM sales force, than they will see an increase in sales. But if they are losing money on some cars, and breaking even on some, and making little profit on the rest, your plan needs to be attached to something that will change the rest of that.

It seems you are an agressive person which is good. But if by any chance you do get Wagoner out, who do you think will replace him? Someone else with the same mindset.

They need a new type of leader.

oh and on your comment, you are not a politician..... well obviously, your still alive after all. If you were a salesman and a politician, you'd a been shot by now.

Seriously though, incresing sales is one thing that needs to be addressed. However with proper management and managing costs better, GM could be more profitable with less sales. Right now that is more important, then you increase sales.

If Hyunda can sell a car for 10k and make a profit, GM can too. Don't tell me anything about labor rates, because I'll reply to you with 1 word.... Daewoo. Instead of doing the wise thing and buying all the plants that could have came with Daewoo, they kept one. I'm not saying all GM cars should be made in Korea, but some of the parts should be. If GM sells 1 million Cobalts this year but loses 100 dollars on each one, that is a lot of money lost.