You pegged it. Ford made a big and focused effort with the Boss. Almost no part of this car has been untouched. From the powertrain to the suspension to the lineage to the interior to the look. This car has been bred to live and thrive at the track - ALL DAY LONG, (not just a lap or two). Okay, sure not everyone will be hitting the road course with it every weekend, in fact most will probably never leave the street. But the fact that Ford went the extra mile or two on this is what makes this package so attractive to so many, even if all you use it for is commuting or cruise nights. Simply stiffening the SS's suspension settings and adding a cold air intake ain't gonna make it a Boss competitor.

Good question. I suppose you could argue this either way. But.....I happen to know a bunch of Camaro/GM enthusiasts who are not thrilled enough with the 5th gen to actually be compelled to whip out their checkbooks and buy one. To a man....let me say that again....to a man, they are impressed with and are more likely to want to buy a Boss Mustang rather than any current or upcoming version of the Camaro. THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MINUTE. If the Camaro Team doesn't see that as a problem or at the very least, a point of interest ...well...what else is there to say?

 

Frankly, as long as the Camaro sells well, I don't think they really care.

With the 5th Gen, it almost seems as though the Camaro is headed in a different direction than the Mustang. However, who knows what a 6th Gen will bring.

 

As long as you're referring to the execs, and not entire membership of the vehicle team, I suspect you're right.

 

Yes, that is what I was referring to.

The vehicle teams always want to make the best car they can............. especially one with the history of the Camaro. I also think they have a tendency to deem that history more important.

For the most part, for execs, it is just a money thing.

This is one area where Ford and Mustang enthusiasts were lucky, as Bill Ford Jr is a HUGE Mustang fan.

 

Completely different character compared to the 5.0 the SOHC 6.2 would make for a nice Mach 1 SE/Boss 429 SE and even though its heavy ***** I bet its lighter than the previous AL/CI Shelby motors and maybe even on par with the current Al/AL Shelby motor (including S/C hardware).

 

Yes, you understood my meaning completely.

It's totally speculative on my part, but if the Camaro starts needing discounts to sell, I'm expecting GM to do something to add interest. The convertible and Z28 are in the queue.

Doing something for the Camaro SS akin to the Corvette Grand Sport seems like something that Chevy could do pretty quickly. And it may just be handling and appearance bits from the Z28, which is obviously not the same as the Boss, in case anyone is missing my point.

 

The 5th gen Camaro appeals to a somewhat different crowd from the 3rd and 4th, though there is obviously overlap. Some of that is on purpose.

Can GM build something to appeal to the rabid 4th gen fans who don't care for the 5th gen without alienating the 5th gen fans who don't care for the 4th gen? It's probably not possible to get everyone from both groups. They just want to make sure they gain more than they lose.

 

I think its more possible then not. Ford is doing pretty good at having a Mustang model for everyone. There is no reason GM could not do the same.

 

Not that it is fully an excuse, but remember that Ford has no Corvette. GM has various levels of the Corvette to suit the leisurely cruising guys as well as the hardcore performance types.

GM also just went through bankruptcy, which I'm sure leaned some things out a bit.

Ford, on the other hand, really only has the Mustang to go after the hardcore performance types. If Corvette were gone and Camaro got all of Corvette's budget, I bet you'd be more inclined to see low volume, focused models similar to the Boss Mustang in the Camaro lineup. But at least for now, Camaro needs to sell well to the 95% of people who will never put it on the track (not to mention those who WILL put it on a track are apt to modify the cars to their liking anyway).

I would love to see a few more variations of the Camaro to go head to head with every niche model the Mustang offers. Just keep in mind that for GT500 money (or likely even loaded Boss money), you are knocking on the door of, or well within, Corvette territory.

 

All that is true, Joe. But it becomes a purely academic discussion, because the customer doesn't care.

At the end of the day, Camaro and Mustang compete directly. Very few people will cut the Camaro slack because Chevy also has a Corvette and Ford doesn't and GM went through BK and Ford didn't.

The fact of the matter is that Ford takes the Mustang much more seriously than GM takes the Camaro. There is a willingness from the VERY TOP to develop, hone and protect Mustang's image to a very high level. GM has a very patchy record in that regard when it comes to Camaro. Understanding that (I know that you do Joe, just saying in the context of this discussion ), explains alot.

 

On the subject of the 5th gen, we sometimes disagree. I think this is one of those times where we are pretty much on the same page as far as what we see.

Save uncertainties at work and being hit with new bills related to mom's care and a divorce, I'm more than ready to buy a replacement for my 2002 Camaro (just passed 215,000 miles.... I drive my cars....and take care of them!). Those issues aside, the only thing stopping me was that all 3 coupes from all 3 US makers had extremely strong reasons both for and against them.

While I think the rear of the Mustang is perhaps one of the worst looking of any car currently produced, the rest of the car in 5.0 GT form (especially the Boss!) more than makes up for it.

I have always said, and will always say, that the V6 Camaro is THE automotive deal of the century (yes, even over the quicker but speed governed V6 Mustang), but the Camaro SS, in light of both the Mustang GT and the Challenger R/T, simply doesn't make a compelling case.

And you just know that if GM took the effort of making a Boss-type Camaro, it would almost certainly either cost more than a Boss, or be less unique or capable than the Boss. That's the way GM is, more focused on cost efficiency than on putting together a a package at a fair price the way Ford does... or put together a phenominal package and then charge you through the nose the way Chrysler does.

But then, as I mentioned, the bulk of Camaro enthusiasts are different than Mustang enthusiasts.

Most Mustang V8 buyers get sticks. Most V8 Camaro V8 buyers get automatics. Mustang enthusiasts are more likely to personalize or modify their cars than Camaro buyers. While Mustang enthusiasts are more likely to frequent car shows and modify their cars either through personalized appearence items or performance enhancing hardware, Camaro buyers are into ready made performance and crusing the streets.

As such, while Ford is spending almost too much time on racetracks and increasing their performance catalogue to almost dictionary proportions, Camaro is THE car that attracts attention, and is every bit of a cruising car with ***** as the GTO was in the 1960s (despite having a cheap feeling interior).

Again, perhaps Camaro doesn't need to spend time on the track. It fills a niche that has been completely missing from the automotive scene since the last LS6 Chevelle SS left the affordable and became the collectable and GTOs morphed from quick "Grand Tourer" to "Legend" in peoples minds.

I just finished driving a SS around Pittsburgh and Monroeville for a week (pictures if you want them). After driving new Camaros at least 4 times this year, I think I finally get it.

Camaro is all about appearences and cruising. It's about that feeling back when we were kids (not giving away any ages) and that older cousin or relative that still had a 60s era muscle car took us for a drive downtown to see other fast cars in the evening back in the 70s. Much like my cousin Tim's 68 Torino GT 390, or my cousin Willie's El Camino with the 396, or one of my dad's friends who took us out when I was about 5 in his drop top late 60s GTO to a cruise night.

That's what the new Camaro is all about I think.

But if you're into handling performance, or actually race your cars, visit tracks frequently, or simply want a race capable car in your possesion, then the Mustang is it.

Doesn't take anything away from the Camaro.

Nor does it take anything away from the Mustang.

It's all about a matter of what you prefer in a car.

 

Hmm, I dont think that was the intended point of the new Camaro......but then again it makes sense. The problem is that is exactly the bullseye that the Challenger hits. It does the crusing job much better and much more comfortably.

 

If there was such a thing that is beyond 100% correct Gloris, you just named it.

Bill Ford... the CEO of the Ford Motor Company... is perhaps the Mustang's BIGGEST enthusiast.

Try this on for size: he once said that as long as there was a Ford Motor Company, they would always find a way to make a Mustang and make money on it!!

Around 1990, General Motors Corperation actually considsered killing the Corvette. Being on any Camaro "team" in the 2nd half 1990s was viewed as a dead end position on level with being sent to Siberia, and being there in the early 90s wasn't any better. The only reason the Camaro redesign happened at all in 1998 was because the new LS engines simply would not fit under the front end structure of the door-stop wedge of the 93-97 Camaros. Consider that GM killed 2 proposals for a 5th gen Camaro that would have kept the name alive uninterrupted: the Sigma-based Camaro and previous Holden V-series-based Camaro.

Lets not forget that GM's own Chief Executive Officer as well as it's so-called Product "Czar" and the Executive of GM's design department had to perform what was effectively deception, an end-run, and essentially "Railroad" the 5th gen Camaro project through General Motors or the current Camaro would have never seen the light of day.

Today, Camaro is seen as a central and key part of GM the way the Challenger is now seen as a key part of Chrysler (Challenger was only scheduled to be around a few years, and now it's going to be around till at least mid decade!! ), and discussions are on for the next generation.

At Ford, there was never a question, and the next gen Mustang is well into development!

Ford has a commitment to Mustang that is part of Ford's DNA.

GM seems to have a commitment to Camaro as long as it's profitable and earns great press.

We aren't going to have people like Scott and Mark Reuss and the few key people around forever who will do whatever they can to keep Camaro going.

Keep in mind 2/3 of the key executives who ramrodded the 5th gen to production are gone now.

That's the key difference between a family run company (ie: Ford) and a (now) company ran like a corperation (ie: GM).

One will say "This is what we want...Find a way to make it profitable!".

The other will make you prove it's profitable before they approve it.

 

BINGO!

 

Ya gotta love someone like this...