Base v8, Good or Bad?
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,000
From: TX Med Ctr
Originally posted by Jason E
When I was selling 'Birds in '02, I had so many people say to me "Sure, this $23,000 Firebird is nice...but where's the V8? Why should I have to pay $5,000 more for a comparable Formula just to get a V8, and suspension goodies and/or brakes I don't need?!?!?"
When I was selling 'Birds in '02, I had so many people say to me "Sure, this $23,000 Firebird is nice...but where's the V8? Why should I have to pay $5,000 more for a comparable Formula just to get a V8, and suspension goodies and/or brakes I don't need?!?!?"
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,376
From: Sarasota FL
Originally posted by IZ28
I agree there. It's nice to see it from a perspective from some1 who sold them.
I agree there. It's nice to see it from a perspective from some1 who sold them.
Thankfully, my dad DID pony up the $$, and has a 500 mile '02 SOM 6 speed Fomula in the garage
In about 10 years or so, that one will be mine too
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,376
From: Sarasota FL
Originally posted by HAZ-Matt
And this is the funny part. 98+ V6's share all the V8 brake components, and rear springs...
And this is the funny part. 98+ V6's share all the V8 brake components, and rear springs...
ALMIGHTY MEMBER
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,298
From: Detroit, MI USA
QUOTE "If they actually give us the choice and stop making all the decisions for us for a change that is. I'm also positive that if it is up to us, the want for the Z28 as the top/1LE-like/Z06-like car will be heard. "
OK.....
Please define the term "US"..........and if you mean everyone on this board......and you can get everyone to agree on one thing (other than GM must bring the Camaro back...and I would agree to that 10,000%) then you will walk on water...........
If "US" means who I think it means, that's still leaving a lot of Camaro enthusiasts out there without a voice.
The least of my concern right now is the names.....I'm more concerned on getting the next gen car right......then we worry about the names. And by the way, regardless of WHAT we call 'em, we WILL upset a bunch of people....because the car inspires passion (as if we all didn't notice)
Get over the nameplates for now, please.....we've heard all the arguments.
......I think this argument would be rendered moot if I were ever to post the internal docs from 34-38 years ago. (which I can't, by the way.........)
......don't ASSUME that we would only offer a 200 some hp base engine/base care and a $30K plus SS......With two engine families in the 4th gen (2002) we were, with the assist of SLP able to offer 5 horsepower ranges.....200, 310, 325, 335, 345.......and 4 of the five were underrated.............there was also GMMGInc who also offered additional hp........so don't rule out a variety of HPs....
It's nice to see that some do pay attention to what I say sometimes...but don't take it out of context.
And last.....you've heard me say or list some of the things the 5th gen MUST do/be......
Must have RWD
Must have a V8
Must be recognizable as a Camaro
Must be class leading in power, handling, quality, and overall performance....
AND......MUST be affordable...at a Chevrolet price. If the car is to come in under 20K, there will be tradeoffs.....every car/truck has tradeoffs......offering several engine families adds incredible expense.....and I don't see emissions laws getting more lax...just the opposite. Every time a state changes their emissions laws versus the federal laws, it adds expense...substantial expense.
The challenge will be to offer two engine families with a variety of horsepowers.
Now...I'm not saying ANYTHING is gospel....(it's great to have guys like Lutz and several others changing the rules every day!) but I would rather see the 5th gen hit a home run with two engine families and a variety of hp versus hit a double and have 6 engine choices.
In a perfect world, we'd be back in 1967............in terms of what was once doable........(did that sound right???)
Last words in this post: Is it necessary to call people 'dumbells' because they may not agree 100% with your viewpoint on model designators?
OK.....
Please define the term "US"..........and if you mean everyone on this board......and you can get everyone to agree on one thing (other than GM must bring the Camaro back...and I would agree to that 10,000%) then you will walk on water...........
If "US" means who I think it means, that's still leaving a lot of Camaro enthusiasts out there without a voice.
The least of my concern right now is the names.....I'm more concerned on getting the next gen car right......then we worry about the names. And by the way, regardless of WHAT we call 'em, we WILL upset a bunch of people....because the car inspires passion (as if we all didn't notice)
Get over the nameplates for now, please.....we've heard all the arguments.
......I think this argument would be rendered moot if I were ever to post the internal docs from 34-38 years ago. (which I can't, by the way.........)
......don't ASSUME that we would only offer a 200 some hp base engine/base care and a $30K plus SS......With two engine families in the 4th gen (2002) we were, with the assist of SLP able to offer 5 horsepower ranges.....200, 310, 325, 335, 345.......and 4 of the five were underrated.............there was also GMMGInc who also offered additional hp........so don't rule out a variety of HPs....
It's nice to see that some do pay attention to what I say sometimes...but don't take it out of context.
And last.....you've heard me say or list some of the things the 5th gen MUST do/be......
Must have RWD
Must have a V8
Must be recognizable as a Camaro
Must be class leading in power, handling, quality, and overall performance....
AND......MUST be affordable...at a Chevrolet price. If the car is to come in under 20K, there will be tradeoffs.....every car/truck has tradeoffs......offering several engine families adds incredible expense.....and I don't see emissions laws getting more lax...just the opposite. Every time a state changes their emissions laws versus the federal laws, it adds expense...substantial expense.
The challenge will be to offer two engine families with a variety of horsepowers.
Now...I'm not saying ANYTHING is gospel....(it's great to have guys like Lutz and several others changing the rules every day!) but I would rather see the 5th gen hit a home run with two engine families and a variety of hp versus hit a double and have 6 engine choices.
In a perfect world, we'd be back in 1967............in terms of what was once doable........(did that sound right???)
Last words in this post: Is it necessary to call people 'dumbells' because they may not agree 100% with your viewpoint on model designators?
Last edited by Fbodfather; Aug 6, 2003 at 09:42 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,376
From: Sarasota FL
Here here...
I seriously do not care what the top model is called...I think its a pretty asinine argument, to be frank. SS has its place, Z28 has its place. I don't care which one is on top...I like them both equally.
All I want is a damn Camaro to buy, whatever the hell they call the individual models. I'd perfer to buy a base model with a V8 so its more affordable...
I know you caught that hint, Red
I seriously do not care what the top model is called...I think its a pretty asinine argument, to be frank. SS has its place, Z28 has its place. I don't care which one is on top...I like them both equally.
All I want is a damn Camaro to buy, whatever the hell they call the individual models. I'd perfer to buy a base model with a V8 so its more affordable...
I know you caught that hint, Red
ALMIGHTY MEMBER
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,298
From: Detroit, MI USA
oh yeah.......
AND ANOTHER THING......
What makes you think "WE" make all the decisions? I don't mean to bust on anyone, but trust me, almost EVERY decision, whether it be wheels, interior trims, price point, content, styling, etc......is done by talking with consumers......
NO, we don't talk with MiniVan owners. (well, that's not necessarily true...some may have one in their fleet) but we talk with "Sport Coupe" owners (read: Mustang, Eclipse, Firebird, Camaro, V8/V6, Male/Female, under 35/over 35, etc. as well as "Sport Coupe Intenders"
We DO NOT sit in a room and say "Well, this is what we're gonna do and if they don't like it, tough!"
Anyone who has worked on vehicle development can tell you that.
So.......we DO listen to you.....COLLECTIVELY....and as I said before, no matter what we do...some will love it, some will hate it....that's the nature of a great car that inspires passion.
AND ANOTHER THING......
What makes you think "WE" make all the decisions? I don't mean to bust on anyone, but trust me, almost EVERY decision, whether it be wheels, interior trims, price point, content, styling, etc......is done by talking with consumers......
NO, we don't talk with MiniVan owners. (well, that's not necessarily true...some may have one in their fleet) but we talk with "Sport Coupe" owners (read: Mustang, Eclipse, Firebird, Camaro, V8/V6, Male/Female, under 35/over 35, etc. as well as "Sport Coupe Intenders"
We DO NOT sit in a room and say "Well, this is what we're gonna do and if they don't like it, tough!"
Anyone who has worked on vehicle development can tell you that.
So.......we DO listen to you.....COLLECTIVELY....and as I said before, no matter what we do...some will love it, some will hate it....that's the nature of a great car that inspires passion.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
Originally posted by Red Planet
And last.....you've heard me say or list some of the things the 5th gen MUST do/be......
Must have RWD
Must have a V8
Must be recognizable as a Camaro
Must be class leading in power, handling, quality, and overall performance....
And last.....you've heard me say or list some of the things the 5th gen MUST do/be......
Must have RWD
Must have a V8
Must be recognizable as a Camaro
Must be class leading in power, handling, quality, and overall performance....
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by Red Planet
.
So.......we DO listen to you.....COLLECTIVELY....and as I said before, no matter what we do...some will love it, some will hate it....that's the nature of a great car that inspires passion.
.
So.......we DO listen to you.....COLLECTIVELY....and as I said before, no matter what we do...some will love it, some will hate it....that's the nature of a great car that inspires passion.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
Originally posted by Red Planet
Hey...that's at the top of my list....."Make 'you know who' get rid of the Contour'.........and buy a six pack of 5th gens.
Hey...that's at the top of my list....."Make 'you know who' get rid of the Contour'.........and buy a six pack of 5th gens.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by Red Planet
Hey...that's at the top of my list....."Make 'you know who' get rid of the Contour'.........and buy a six pack of 5th gens.
Hey...that's at the top of my list....."Make 'you know who' get rid of the Contour'.........and buy a six pack of 5th gens.
As for the SVT....I'll still need a winter beater.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,376
From: Sarasota FL
Originally posted by Red Planet
well.....THANK YEWWWWW, Jason E! (yup, caught the hint)
(several times over the past several years!)
well.....THANK YEWWWWW, Jason E! (yup, caught the hint)
(several times over the past several years!)
Man, I really hope I get to meet you someday...I think we'd have a lot to talk about Did you ever catch that thread I did about selling the 35 '02 Birds?? I think there were a couple people here who said you needed to hire me...
I am available for an interview whenever Red...like I said in that post, I am not doing my MBA for my health
If I have said it once on this board, I have said it a million times...I will not be content until I work for GM. I've shaken hands with Jack Smith. I have received emails from Tom Thiverge (you may recognize the name Red...he said he worked at Ste. Therese)...I even did duty on a sales floor for 3 years, ending just 2 weeks ago. I will make it...
Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now
I just get pumped every now and then over the mere thought of this...
Last edited by Jason E; Aug 6, 2003 at 10:22 PM.
ALMIGHTY MEMBER
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,298
From: Detroit, MI USA
So Jason E.....(and all the rest of you)
What you do is get into your Camaro the weekend of September 18 and drive to Bowling Green Kentucky to the largest gathering of Camaros/Firebirds in the country at the National Corvette Museum......we're hoping for over 1,000........and I'll sit and talk with you.........
The website will be updated next week with all the details at www.corvettemuseum.com
Drag Racing, Autocross, Dyno, gokart racing, a tour of the Corvette Plant, a tour of the Corvette Museum, GM guys there, seminars, a road tour, a welcome BBQ at "The Homestead", a Banquet, an auction of Camaro and Firebird stuff, not to mention concept cars and some historic Camaros and Firebirds.
Oh yeah, and if we hit 1,000 Fcars, I have agreed to quit smoking.
So.....gas up the Camaro, pal....ROAD TRIP!
What you do is get into your Camaro the weekend of September 18 and drive to Bowling Green Kentucky to the largest gathering of Camaros/Firebirds in the country at the National Corvette Museum......we're hoping for over 1,000........and I'll sit and talk with you.........
The website will be updated next week with all the details at www.corvettemuseum.com
Drag Racing, Autocross, Dyno, gokart racing, a tour of the Corvette Plant, a tour of the Corvette Museum, GM guys there, seminars, a road tour, a welcome BBQ at "The Homestead", a Banquet, an auction of Camaro and Firebird stuff, not to mention concept cars and some historic Camaros and Firebirds.
Oh yeah, and if we hit 1,000 Fcars, I have agreed to quit smoking.
So.....gas up the Camaro, pal....ROAD TRIP!