Base v8, Good or Bad?
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Joined: Jan 2000
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From: Albany, NY
Originally posted by Z284ever
I agree with you that if a 500 hp Cobra actually materializes...it's Chevy competition will be the Z06.
But as far as the Z/28 having the "mainstream" V8 for 25 years....LM1, LU5, L69, LB9, B2L, LT1, LS1......these Z/28 powerplants have always been Camaro's top engines.
I agree with you that if a 500 hp Cobra actually materializes...it's Chevy competition will be the Z06.
But as far as the Z/28 having the "mainstream" V8 for 25 years....LM1, LU5, L69, LB9, B2L, LT1, LS1......these Z/28 powerplants have always been Camaro's top engines.
you could also say that in the past 25 years the SS powerplants have always been Camaro's top engines.
I'm not up on my 3rd gen history as much as I should be but I'd bet that the Z28 was the most produced V8 Camaro in just about all the yearsthat would make them mainstream.
if a second smaller V8 does apear in the 5th Gen I'd like to see a no SS or Z28 badge on it. Maybe something totally new, I'm not against making something new, 5th gen only.
SS and Z28 = same engine, different body kit, one IRS one solid axle, it could work.
I'd still like to see a blown V6 as the midrange engine.
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Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by guionM
1. First gen Z28 & Camaro SS were 2 distinct cars for 2 distinct purposes. SS was an appearance package, but as top power carried an engine that wasn't otherwise available (ie: SS396 or later the 454) that was ideal for the strip or street. Z28 on the other hand was a track car with (for that time) smallish engines making good horsepower, but wasn't exactly a drag racer.
1. First gen Z28 & Camaro SS were 2 distinct cars for 2 distinct purposes. SS was an appearance package, but as top power carried an engine that wasn't otherwise available (ie: SS396 or later the 454) that was ideal for the strip or street. Z28 on the other hand was a track car with (for that time) smallish engines making good horsepower, but wasn't exactly a drag racer.
Even our insider corperate visitor here seems to pretty much want Z28 gone in favor of the SS.
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From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by Z28x
actually in 97 the SS had a 330HP LT4 option while the Z28 only had a 285HP LT1.
actually in 97 the SS had a 330HP LT4 option while the Z28 only had a 285HP LT1.
you could also say that in the past 25 years the SS powerplants have always been Camaro's top engines.
I'd still like to see a blown V6 as the midrange engine.
Last edited by Z284ever; Aug 2, 2003 at 12:35 AM.
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Joined: Mar 2001
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From: The Golden State
Originally posted by Z284ever
Actually a 454 never appeared in a production Camaro. The LS7 454 was supposed to appear in the 1970 Camaro....but that never materialized.
Actually a 454 never appeared in a production Camaro. The LS7 454 was supposed to appear in the 1970 Camaro....but that never materialized.
On a side note (Trivia time) SSs tradionally have more power than the Z28.
1967-69 375hp 415tor SS/ 290hp 290tor Z28
1970 375hp 415tor SS/ 360hp 380tor Z28
1971 300hp 360tor SS/ 330hp 360tor Z28
1972 240hp 345tor SS/ 255hp 280tor Z28
So technically, our GM Camaro guys are correct. But I feel it would be a mistake in discarding Camaro's most historic model (Z28 has been around 32 out of Camaros 35 year history, while SS just 14! That's less than half of Camaro's existance!!
Let's not even talk about total production figures!!
Last edited by guionM; Aug 2, 2003 at 12:50 AM.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by guionM
But I feel it would be a mistake in discarding Camaro's most historic model (Z28 has been around 32 out of Camaros 35 year history, while SS just 14! That's less than half of Camaro's existance!!
But I feel it would be a mistake in discarding Camaro's most historic model (Z28 has been around 32 out of Camaros 35 year history, while SS just 14! That's less than half of Camaro's existance!!
That would of course be a mistake.......and a huge one.
If you think the GTO people were p!ssed off about no hood scoops..........well all I can say is, you'd better fasten your seat belts.
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From: chicagoland area
Originally posted by guionM
Couple of things here.
1. First gen Z28 & Camaro SS were 2 distinct cars for 2 distinct purposes. SS was an appearance package, but as top power carried an engine that wasn't otherwise available (ie: SS396 or later the 454) that was ideal for the strip or street. Z28 on the other hand was a track car with (for that time) smallish engines making good horsepower, but wasn't exactly a drag racer.
2. Those 69 ZL1s shouldn't even be called production engines, let alone compared to the current LS1. Pretty much any aftermarket tuner makes more engine than 69. Besides, the ZL1 doubled the price of the Camaro. Anyone here willing to pay $60,000 for a new Camaro SS?
3. As for the earlier complaint about a base Camaro being beat by a Honda Accord, so what?? We are talking base models here. If there is an optional engine on a Accord, Camary, Mini Cooper, or a Huyndai that outruns a base Camaro, where's the problem. It's a BASE engine! If you want something quicker, then cough up extra money and order yourself the more powerful engine!
Back to the subject, GM's NOT going to downgrade the SS. Even our insider corperate visitor here seems to pretty much want Z28 gone in favor of the SS. Z28 even lost it's hood scoop in '98, effectively turning it into a modern day Mustang LX. GM (and by association, the Camaro guys at GM) also seem dead set against even considering a 2nd V8 engine. It simply isn't going to happen, and we've been round and round with them about this before. Even though we are talking about certifying the same engine block in crash tests, GM simply won't cough up the money for the engine.
Camaro team's goal wasn't to compete with Mustang. IMHO they had the same disease many of us here have: "the we-don't-need-to-compete-cause-we-have-the-faster-car disease". Mustang had 2 V8s when Camaro had 1 (Mustang now has 3!). At Camaro, 1 wheel design fits all (except the SS) while Mustang has at least 4 (remember the 12 million dollar Camaro Aniversary SS wheel that was the big deal with them?).
You know what? If it appears that if some people have their way, we'll have only a base modest price V6 Camaro & the $30,000 Camaro SS V8. That's it!
GTO is getting hood scoops & a few other changes because of input. Now just may be the time to let GM & Chevy know how you want your Camaro set up.
Couple of things here.
1. First gen Z28 & Camaro SS were 2 distinct cars for 2 distinct purposes. SS was an appearance package, but as top power carried an engine that wasn't otherwise available (ie: SS396 or later the 454) that was ideal for the strip or street. Z28 on the other hand was a track car with (for that time) smallish engines making good horsepower, but wasn't exactly a drag racer.
2. Those 69 ZL1s shouldn't even be called production engines, let alone compared to the current LS1. Pretty much any aftermarket tuner makes more engine than 69. Besides, the ZL1 doubled the price of the Camaro. Anyone here willing to pay $60,000 for a new Camaro SS?
3. As for the earlier complaint about a base Camaro being beat by a Honda Accord, so what?? We are talking base models here. If there is an optional engine on a Accord, Camary, Mini Cooper, or a Huyndai that outruns a base Camaro, where's the problem. It's a BASE engine! If you want something quicker, then cough up extra money and order yourself the more powerful engine!
Back to the subject, GM's NOT going to downgrade the SS. Even our insider corperate visitor here seems to pretty much want Z28 gone in favor of the SS. Z28 even lost it's hood scoop in '98, effectively turning it into a modern day Mustang LX. GM (and by association, the Camaro guys at GM) also seem dead set against even considering a 2nd V8 engine. It simply isn't going to happen, and we've been round and round with them about this before. Even though we are talking about certifying the same engine block in crash tests, GM simply won't cough up the money for the engine.
Camaro team's goal wasn't to compete with Mustang. IMHO they had the same disease many of us here have: "the we-don't-need-to-compete-cause-we-have-the-faster-car disease". Mustang had 2 V8s when Camaro had 1 (Mustang now has 3!). At Camaro, 1 wheel design fits all (except the SS) while Mustang has at least 4 (remember the 12 million dollar Camaro Aniversary SS wheel that was the big deal with them?).
You know what? If it appears that if some people have their way, we'll have only a base modest price V6 Camaro & the $30,000 Camaro SS V8. That's it!
GTO is getting hood scoops & a few other changes because of input. Now just may be the time to let GM & Chevy know how you want your Camaro set up.
1. SS ="Trim Package" I agree with you thats all it was.
2. I wasn't comparing the LS-1 to the ZL-1 motor. Someone was saying if a camaro had 500hp it should be called the ZL-1. Which is the RPO code for the aluminum 427 in 1969. There was no ZL-1 model Camaro. As for a "tuned" Camaro whipping a ZL-1 powered Camaro it should be no problem. Even a stock LS-1 auto/2.73 geared could probably blow away a stock ZL-1.
3. I think that "SS" is a generic Chevy model. For example Monte Carlo SS , Impala SS , Cobalt SS , and AveoSS ect. No performance just some nice emblems.
Then there is Z06, ZR1, Z28 and we all know that (at least with in the last 13 years) Z06/ZR1 means top notch performance. Z28 was top notch performance from 67-95. Like I said before IMO the 4th gen SS was an afterthought. GM probably like the "SS" designation so much because of the success of the 94-96 Impala.
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From: New York, NY
Originally posted by guionM
Now just may be the time to let GM & Chevy know how you want your Camaro set up.
Now just may be the time to let GM & Chevy know how you want your Camaro set up.
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From: At car shows and cruise nights!
I'll let them know alright. 1st, I honestly think that if the same dumbells that messed up the 4th Gen and tried to rewrite Camaro history are working on the 5th Gen now, they need to be replaced, I don't care who they are. They don't belong managing the Chevrolet Camaro and making decisions for it. If they wanna do things almost the same again they'll get the same results. The Camaro needs a base V8 or S/Ced V6, there's no other way unless they intend to use the same engines and give them different power ratings by using different head/cam/gears, etc. I wanna see choices and difference again like previous Gens and the M*stang. They need to look at what happened before the 4th Gen and realize what made those Gens sell no matter what and why the M*stang is seeing such good success.
The Z28 should be the top car without question, I do not know how any person who calls themselves a "Camaro guy" could say any different, in fact I question those that do. SS is the regular car performance option. Impala SS, MC SS, Chevelle SS, Nova SS, whatever. (remember, even the Chevelle and Nova weren't exactly all-out sports/musclecars like the Camaro) Z28 and Z06 should be together as the top performance Chevrolets. Like Guion said, Z28 was always there as the top model for years and through all the Gens as the top Camaro and the SS was there for only a few. In the 4th Gen it became an overpriced Z28,
it would have been a better idea for GM to make the SS and let SLP make it into a Z28. In the early years it got nowhere near the attention or legendary status as the Z/28 did (that was for Z284ever, 
even though I still don't like the /) as it looked better, handled better, braked better, was lighter, more expensive, had bigger rims/tires, factory header options, introduced the cowl induction hood, and had an underrated 302 around 400HP that could take some big blocks. That sounds like the top car to me and it was the true all-out performance Camaro even if it didn't have real high ci or lots of instant TQ, it had all-around performance and was like a racecar you could drive home. It always was and always should be the top Camaro since it really was in every Gen, except when the revisonists tried to change it in the later 4th most likely trying to bring in some sales no doubt by taking a name from way back. The Z28, or Z/28, is CAMARO specific and is NOT a base or mid-model and never should be reduced to that ever again. (get a clue morons at GM) Let the SS be the "luxury" top car and let the Z28 be the all-out, 1LE-like, no compromise, top performance car that isn't exactly for every1 with it's own looks and options.
The Z28 should be the top car without question, I do not know how any person who calls themselves a "Camaro guy" could say any different, in fact I question those that do. SS is the regular car performance option. Impala SS, MC SS, Chevelle SS, Nova SS, whatever. (remember, even the Chevelle and Nova weren't exactly all-out sports/musclecars like the Camaro) Z28 and Z06 should be together as the top performance Chevrolets. Like Guion said, Z28 was always there as the top model for years and through all the Gens as the top Camaro and the SS was there for only a few. In the 4th Gen it became an overpriced Z28,
it would have been a better idea for GM to make the SS and let SLP make it into a Z28. In the early years it got nowhere near the attention or legendary status as the Z/28 did (that was for Z284ever, even though I still don't like the /) as it looked better, handled better, braked better, was lighter, more expensive, had bigger rims/tires, factory header options, introduced the cowl induction hood, and had an underrated 302 around 400HP that could take some big blocks. That sounds like the top car to me and it was the true all-out performance Camaro even if it didn't have real high ci or lots of instant TQ, it had all-around performance and was like a racecar you could drive home. It always was and always should be the top Camaro since it really was in every Gen, except when the revisonists tried to change it in the later 4th most likely trying to bring in some sales no doubt by taking a name from way back. The Z28, or Z/28, is CAMARO specific and is NOT a base or mid-model and never should be reduced to that ever again. (get a clue morons at GM) Let the SS be the "luxury" top car and let the Z28 be the all-out, 1LE-like, no compromise, top performance car that isn't exactly for every1 with it's own looks and options.
Last edited by IZ28; Aug 2, 2003 at 06:02 AM.
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From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by Darth Xed
A note from the other side of the coin here for all those bashing SS name usage:
There have also been these cars: Z24, Z26, Z34.
A note from the other side of the coin here for all those bashing SS name usage:
There have also been these cars: Z24, Z26, Z34.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Originally posted by Z284ever
So what Darth. They were not called Z/28. Cavalier Z/28, Baretta Z/28, Lumina Z/28. So it wasn't quite as generic.
So what Darth. They were not called Z/28. Cavalier Z/28, Baretta Z/28, Lumina Z/28. So it wasn't quite as generic.
Can use it on one side of the arguement and not on the other.
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From: Albany, NY
Originally posted by Darth Xed
OK, fine, but people in this thread are using Z06, ZR1, ZL1 et al as reasons why Z28 should be considered tops... and Monte Carlo SS, Impala SS, Cobalt SS, etc as reason not to use SS.
Can use it on one side of the arguement and not on the other.
OK, fine, but people in this thread are using Z06, ZR1, ZL1 et al as reasons why Z28 should be considered tops... and Monte Carlo SS, Impala SS, Cobalt SS, etc as reason not to use SS.
Can use it on one side of the arguement and not on the other.
with the Z71 and ZR2 you do get some good off road stuff though
in Canada they have the Z22, I think it stands for stripped cavi with hub caps and stickers. It is a embarrassment to the Z line.