I think i may have seen non-Iroc 3rd gen z28's. Wasn't the Iroc and option on top of the z28 (much like the current SS).

 

from 85-87, the IROC package was an add-on to the Z28 model. from 88-90 it was it replaced the Z28 as the high end model....

I always considered an IROC the same thing as what the SS is now...it had the same engine, but got different wheels, better suspension and some other small stuff...the early 4thgen SS cars were "Z28 SS" cars, so they are Z28s too?

 

In my cousins 89 IROC the emblem on the dash says Z28 in big letters. On a 4th gen SS model there are no Z28 emblems any where (Iam only stating this because it was supposed to be "Z28-SS").

 

I get what your saying, but IMO SS is a trim package. I' ll compare your list to some ford products to get my point across. Because what your saying is SS is to Chevy what SVT is to Ford.

1.) 1991 454 SS= the 454 was the same motor that was available in the 2500 series trucks (nothing different), suspension was the optional suspension available on any 1500 series truck.
So pretty much the only thing special was the color combo and the SS 454 stickers on the side.
1992 SVT Lightning= Specific 351, suspension, interior, wheels front end.
2.) 00-03 Monte SS= Lesabre 3.8, Emblems and some cool Taz stickers 04 Monte/Impi SS = 240 hp s/c (not even the upgraded motor thats in the grand prix) same as buick GS, 17" wheels and an upgraded suspension, and it still won't keep up with the GP Comp G package.
Any Taurus SHO= specific motor, trans, wheels, exterior fascia suspension, ect.
3.) 03-04 Siverado SS=6.0 V8 found in a number of other trucks, 20" wheels. exterior trim and a nice SS badge on the dash
Current Harley truck (the SS is so pathetic I woundn't put it in the same class as a lightning) 5.4 s/c, different interior, grill, nice little decals ect.
4.) Camaro SS=Same engine as "lower" model Z28, hood, spoiler, wheels, suspension tuning
Cobra= Specific S/C 32 Valve 4.6 (just that is cool compared to anything on the 4th gen) different interior, front end, rear end, spoiler, brake's, wider wheels, suspension, transmission, independent rear suspension.
5.)94-96 Impala SS: Same motor as any Taxi/cop car, Wheels, suspension, exterior, interior.
Maurader: Same stuff as the Impi., shares the Mach 1 motor

Please correct me if some of my info is wrong. I know I'm being an a-hole with my chevrolet descriptions, but thats the cold hard truth.

The Z28 and SS can share the same motor but the Z28 should always perform better than the SS.
Z28= performance
SS= little bit softer and fancier.

 

Exactly. It was recognized as an upgraded Z28, not a "new" and improved model with a name that has nothing to do with what it is. If the SS was done correctly it never would have been an upgraded Z28, LOL. The Z28 was the car that got all the good stuff, the only thing the SS ever had was more ci, but I doubt as much HP as the 302.

 

Oh boy...


Exactly...

You need to understand that a certain 3rd Gen fan here likes to re-write reality.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by guionM
If you are talking about who I think you are, I will vouch 100%, he's very much a Camaro guy. Though him & I don't agree on some things, his commitment is the one thing I don't question. I disagree with the Camaro as a Corvette with a token back seat view, or that the SS should surplant the Z28, but that's an issue all Camaro enthusiasts have to vote on.

If they actually give us the choice and stop making all the decisions for us for a change that is. I'm also positive that if it is up to us, the want for the Z28 as the top/1LE-like/Z06-like car will be heard.

Z28 was the top model from a standard engine standpoint. But SS has the horsepower most years & the torque, so it can be credibly debated "our Camaro guy", and is.... very hotly.

Not really and we've all been through this before. Z28 was the top model from virtually every view you look at it including the 1st Gen and you know what I mean Guion. There's no reason to explain it all again and especially to you.

I agree 100% that Z28 IS Camaro, while SS is just a generic name.

No doubt. It was the top car for 20-something years out of 35!!

But in all fairness, a Camaro SS today would be exactly like the 4th gen Camaro SS. But the SS would have an optional 6.0 liter V8, while Z28 would share Z06's LS6. While Ford is doing something like this with Mustang's engine lineup, but....

Yup, and if there is no enginechoices like what the M*stang is offering or no plans on doing them in a few years after the car is more established, they will feel the idiocy of not doing it. But I disagree that the SS today is what the SS would be. The SS would not be an upgraded Z28, Z28's have always been great all around performers, SS's were not and more focused on going in a straight line only.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing.

How did this turn into the SS vs. Z/28 for top model designation debate? Was that because I suggested that the SS should be the lower HP V8 and Z/28 the Top Dog?

While I do realize, that the top dog performance version of every Chevy model is "SS", that is NOT the case with Corvette, and shouldn't be the case with Camaro if there is going to be a Z/28 model. If people are that hung up on it, then just drop the SS designation and call it something else... or just call it Camaro.

 

Maybe it would be best to just drop SS and go without it like the Corvette does.

 

What do you think GM will/would? Pay special attention to the current trend (SS as top performance models on many of chevy models), and the way Chevy has positioned the SS since 96. Do you see them reversing that or even entertaining the dropping of SS all together?

The vette may have not gotten the SS designation, but it never had such designation to begin with. The camaro on the other hand has.

Historically speaking, the SS was the model with the bigger motor, Hp and Tq. Both have been with the camaro since the very beginning and have their place in camaro history (one a little more storied than the other). For that reason, i think the SS has a place in the camaro lineup. I'm not going to argue for which deserves to be the top model though.

 

That may be the best way to end all of this turmoil.

 

I'd love a base V8---great for people that feel the 6 is not enough and the top "SS" model (Exspensive) is out of reach.

I think Ford has it figured out. GT/ Mach 1/ SVT--
people have a choice and it makes for a more interesting variety.

Gimme 310hp from a "base" V8 (maybe 5.0 displacement?) and they'd make me and thousands of other people happy

 

I'll just chime in on the Z28 dash plaque 9does say IROC underneath it) on 88-90 IROC's. True the plaques are there and the Z28 rpo is in the glovebox. But....the cars are IROC's not
Z28's. There was no Z28 from 88-90 and Z28's never had 16" wheels up to that point or 350TPI or body coloured GFX.

GM was just too stupid and cheap to change the dash plaque.

 

The IROC-Z was a Z28, that is why the dash was kept the same and the RPO was changed from B4Z to Z28 when there was no more regular Z28. Just because there was no base Z28 didn't mean that the car became an "IROC" instead of an IROC-Z or IROC-Z28. All it is and was is an upgraded Z28, having no base Z28 88-90 didn't change that. It's just that the only choice you had was RS and upgraded Z28, no "middle" top car.

 

I honestly haven't read any of the previous posts, but I did want to add my .02...

There needs to be a base V8. There NEEDS to be. Think about it...most people that want a Camaro want a V8...but they don't necessarily want to PAY for a V8. That was the beautiful thing about third gens compared to 4ths...the V8 was readily available and cheap in base/RS models. Sure, it was no match for 5.0s, but it WAS a V8...

When I was selling 'Birds in '02, I had so many people say to me "Sure, this $23,000 Firebird is nice...but where's the V8? Why should I have to pay $5,000 more for a comparable Formula just to get a V8, and suspension goodies and/or brakes I don't need?!?!?"

What happened to a nice $800 or so 4.8 V8? Would that have killed GM? NO. I sold 2 stripper Formulas to old folks who traded in, you guessed it, third gen 305 TBI Birds. They had to have the 8, didn't wanna pay for the Formula, but had to anyways...

You have no idea how many loaded, $24,000 Base Firebirds I could have blown out. Why call it a separate model? Make it a damn base model, and give it an 8!