So you're saying you do want to see an Accord or Altima with equal or better performance than a Camaro?!

 

Far from getting mad.......I applaud you!

 

Exactly. Now that nearly every car has at least 200HP, the Camaro needs to have 230HP at the bare minimum for the base. Although to stay competetive, it would probably need more than 250HP by 2010.

 

1st of all, Z28 has to be top model no question.

Now, there should either be a base V8 or S/Ced V6, that is all.

 

No what I'm saying is that if HP matters to you, buy a Z/28. If all you care about is styling, buy the base V6.

L6 and V6 Camaros were always slugs before the 4th gens. There were plenty of cars that had more power on the road. If you wanted to be faster than anyone else, you bought a Z/28.

Actually if the Camaro comes back at all, I'm questioning whether or not there should be anything other than a Z/28.

 

Let's rehash this one more time for comparisons sake. To suggest a base powerplant for the 5th gen Camaro, we need to compare what Chevrolet already offers for comparative base models and what the competition offers.

Malibu - 170 HP 3100 V6
Monte Carlo - 180 HP 3400 V6
Monte Carlo SS - 200 HP 3800 V6

Mustang - 190 HP 3.8 V6
Mustang GT - 260 HP 4.6 V8
Mustang Mach1 - 300 HP 4.6 V8
Mustang Cobra - 390 HP 4.6 V8

Let's start by assuming that the top Camaro (Z/28) needs to compete head to head with the top Mustang (Cobra); therefore the Z/28 should chime in at ~400 HP.

The base V6 model should keep pace with the base Mustang, but not... I REPEAT NOT be more than the top-of-the-line Monte Carlo. Based on current powerplants, the 180 HP 3400 V6 is a perfect fit. (Sure the 200 HP 3800 is an alternative, but there's no way Chevy has the base Camaro besting the top Monte Carlo... it just doesn't make sense... afterall this is a V6 base Camaro and NOT a V8 base Corvette.)

That brings up the question on whether or not a based V8 is even offered. Ford has proven that the formula works as the demand for a base V8 exists, so why not? Enter the base V8 Camaro a.k.a. "SS" with a 300 HP V8.

So to recap... Chevrolet offers three models of the Camaro...

Camaro - 180 HP 3400 V6*
Camaro SS - 300 HP V8 (The GT challenger)
Camaro Z/28 - 400 HP V8 (The Cobra Killer)

*based on current availablity. By the time the Camaro comes back (2007?) this will probably be upgraded to a 200 HP V6 in the 3.4-3.8 L range.

Now let's debate whether or not there should even be a convertible version. I say ok for the Camaro and Camaro SS, not not for the Camaro Z/28.

 

Oh great. Just because one model is painfully too slow we're going to get to hear about how Accord owners are BEATING Camaro owners in races.

 

Not need to make the base Camaro a joke, GM stopped putting the 3.4L in the Camaros in 1995, why would you want them to put the same engine back in the car 12 years later?

Your sugesting that the V6 camaro be just about the slowest V6 on the road, that won't help its sporty image much.

lets look at some other V6 coupes. current and future:
next Mustang - 250HP
Honda Accord - 240HP
Eclipes - 210HP (probably more by 2007)

Other non-coupes the the V6 camaro price range:
Altima - 240HP
SRT-4 - 215HP (really about 240HP)
WRX - 227HP
Ion Redline - 220HP
Cobalt SS - 220HP
RSX - 200HP
Mazda 6 - 220HP
next Grand Am - 250HP
any thing with the ford new V6 - 250HP

The base Camaro can't be a lame duck, it needs about 240HP just to stay close to most of these cars. by 07 most high end 4 cyl should be putting out 180HP.

THe top Monte is now 240HP & 280tq and the base mustang by 06-07 will be 250HP

 

I just about agree with every word....except, I also think the base motor will need 230-240hp.

 

I agree that the SS should be the mid-model with a 300-350hp V8. An LS-1 makes 350 HP so that can be the base V8. If the new Cobra is going to have 500HP (from what I Understand) shouldn't the Z28 have at least as much?

I just want to make a comment. Iam sure this subject has been argued before. Isn't SS a generic chevy badge? Kinda like GT, EX. LX, ect. IMO Z28 is a little more special. If the top model of the Camaro is going to be awsome shouldn't it have a special name? At this point in time SS is a trim package with no extra performance.

 

the base model definatly needs 230hp bare minimum.....why would GM take a step backwards and make it less powerful!?

just because some people dont want to pay the outrageous insurance fees on the z28 and ss models, doesnt mean they dont want a sporty car......if you want fuel economy buy an econobox. give the camaro what it is known for, power and at least enough to be faster than everyday midsized sedans and v6 mustangs.

 

not to turn this into a Z28 vs. SS fight but...

for the past 7 years the SS has been a performance/appearance option for the Z28 (was't it called Z28/SS in 96?)

I don't see why GM would down grade the SS when they are pushing it as the top of the line performance with the all the other modles.

Z28 has been the mainstream V8 model for the last 25 years I can't see them turning it into a limited edition 500HP supercar. If GM makes that, they should name it ZL1.


One thing we that we all can seem to agree on is that the base V6 should be between 230-250HP

 

In the first gen the SS was the midlevel and the Z28 was top. The ZL1 like the LS1 was the RPO code for the engine it wasn't a seperate model. If I remember correctly there was 69 ZL-1's made and they were all base model Camaro's with the required heavy duty trans/diff and f41 suspension. Correct me if Iam wrong. IMO the 4thgen SS was an after thought because the Z28 was already being built and Chevy had to add a little excitement to the Camaro line up.
The success of the Mustang is because there is a model available for every budget. They all can't have S/C 4.6's in them and be priced for $20g's. There should be a V6 with @least 250hp, the LS-1 @345-350hp and probably a 6.0 with @ least the same power as what ever the next Cobra has. Period.

 

I agree with you that if a 500 hp Cobra actually materializes...it's Chevy competition will be the Z06.

But as far as the Z/28 having the "mainstream" V8 for 25 years....LM1, LU5, L69, LB9, B2L, LT1, LS1......these Z/28 powerplants have always been Camaro's top engines.

 

Couple of things here.

1. First gen Z28 & Camaro SS were 2 distinct cars for 2 distinct purposes. SS was an appearance package, but as top power carried an engine that wasn't otherwise available (ie: SS396 or later the 454) that was ideal for the strip or street. Z28 on the other hand was a track car with (for that time) smallish engines making good horsepower, but wasn't exactly a drag racer.

2. Those 69 ZL1s shouldn't even be called production engines, let alone compared to the current LS1. Pretty much any aftermarket tuner makes more engine than 69. Besides, the ZL1 doubled the price of the Camaro. Anyone here willing to pay $60,000 for a new Camaro SS?

3. As for the earlier complaint about a base Camaro being beat by a Honda Accord, so what?? We are talking base models here. If there is an optional engine on a Accord, Camary, Mini Cooper, or a Huyndai that outruns a base Camaro, where's the problem. It's a BASE engine! If you want something quicker, then cough up extra money and order yourself the more powerful engine!

Back to the subject, GM's NOT going to downgrade the SS. Even our insider corperate visitor here seems to pretty much want Z28 gone in favor of the SS. Z28 even lost it's hood scoop in '98, effectively turning it into a modern day Mustang LX. GM (and by association, the Camaro guys at GM) also seem dead set against even considering a 2nd V8 engine. It simply isn't going to happen, and we've been round and round with them about this before. Even though we are talking about certifying the same engine block in crash tests, GM simply won't cough up the money for the engine.

Camaro team's goal wasn't to compete with Mustang. IMHO they had the same disease many of us here have: "the we-don't-need-to-compete-cause-we-have-the-faster-car disease". Mustang had 2 V8s when Camaro had 1 (Mustang now has 3!). At Camaro, 1 wheel design fits all (except the SS) while Mustang has at least 4 (remember the 12 million dollar Camaro Aniversary SS wheel that was the big deal with them?).

You know what? If it appears that if some people have their way, we'll have only a base modest price V6 Camaro & the $30,000 Camaro SS V8. That's it!

GTO is getting hood scoops & a few other changes because of input. Now just may be the time to let GM & Chevy know how you want your Camaro set up.