I think that is the rub. What is REASONABLE to expect GM to deliver in a car in the price range Camaro needs to be in.

I'd suggest if it ends up being too pricey it shouldn't be called Camaro.

 

I'm 24 right now. I sold my camaro last year, and as soon as my wife’s car is paid of (1 to 2 years) I will be buying a car for me. At 1ft I was looking at getting a LS1 T/A. But changed my mind to a C5. I'm even looking at the CTS. As you can see in a matter of a year I went from a Third gen RS to a C5/CTS.

But that is just how I feel right now and I always change my mind.
But I never buy new cars, so even if I do get a 5th gen, it will be a while until I can get a used one. So I'll enjoy a C5 until then. But I might enjoy the C5 so much, I'll prob be converted to a corvette guy for life.

 

I don't think it's so much as we're out-growing the Camaro as it is tha fact that in today's market, we expect more. There are other choices...

$25k - $35k++ is still a lot of money and we sure don't want to buy something in 2-4 years that is simply a re-run of the car that went on hiatus 3 years ago.

GM needs to remember it target market....we aren't getting any younger! (hell, I turn 48 today! )

 

You have outgrown camaro. The camaro has always been rough around the edges, and will always be imo relative to the cars of its time. It has always been full of compromises. And while i'd like to see some of these compromises resolved for good, i understand that it'll come at a cost and that the camaro will always be hampered by two things: 1) it's image/pedigree 2) it's price. I guess those things are things that camaro can change with a 5th gen, but i don't know if such change is neccessarily good for Camaro.

Last summer @ 22, i thought i outgrew he mustang i owned at that time and looked into several 96-98 M3's and 94-96 3000GT VR4's before setteling for the the more "crude" and less refined low-mileaged 98 z28. I picked it for its sheer performance relative to bang for my buck and simplicity even though it gave up everything else to these other cars. I guess refinement and such didnt rank high on my list @ that time and so camaro was the car for me. Even today, i would rather spend 35k on a 2004 Cobra (new) than an Ls2 GTO. The GTO just isn't in charecter with what i'm looking for in a car right now.

So i'd welcome a more refined camaro, but there is a price i EXPECT to pay for and WILLING to pay for a camaro and if it exceeds that, i'm out. Same with the average joe/jane. Not all changes (especially the drastic ones) are best for the breed. On the other hand, some changes/improvements are always needed.

Right now, i like what i see in Mustang even if the overall package lacks the total refinement of a 2005 car. It has managed to make vast improvement overall the old model without a penelty in pricing, character, etc... So i hope the camaro makes vast improvements without compromising price or character.

 

Still, I think it's totally reasonable. Chrysler sells (and makes money on) a large RWD luxury sedan with a fully independent suspension and OHC 6 engine starting at $23,500. I think Ford's AWD 500 is about $24,000.

 

I agree with this 100%. Im only friggin 22 and after driving an SUV for a year with big comfy heated seats, 4x4 for the winter, higher seating position, either Ive become lazy or spoiled (both?). When I get in the Camaro its fun to drive, but its a lot different of a ride being 5" off the ground with the Sportlines, harder to turn at low speeds with the 17"s, stiff ride with all the poly suspension, sometimes it hunts for idle due to heads/cam and a mediocore tune, etc.

But taking a turn at 80 mph that I can only take at 35 mph in the Trailblazer really makes me forget about all of it.

 

Being enthusiasts I think we tend to buy more used cars. I'm looking at getting a 2002 Blazer for my wife who has to haul around 2 toddlers. I considered an Equinox because they are damn nice, but I look at it this way.

2005 Blazer 4wd 4d LT (0 Miles) = ~$25,000 - 28,000. (Theoretical because they don't make the 4d anymore but bear with me)

2002 Blazer 4wd 4d LT (50,000 Miles) = ~$12,000-14,000.

Let me think about this one for two seconds. OK 0.001 seconds!!! Half the cost. The vehicle as we all know is Barely broken in. You know you don't have a Lemon because if there were any issues they would have developed in the first 10k. Honestly, I will be hard pressed if I even spend the $$$ on a /brand/ new vehicle. And its not that I can't afford it, I just don't like throwing money in the toilet - and that goes for any car manufacture. 10-15% gone when you drive it off the lot.

 

oh you will.... you will.... once you go vette you don't look back. I know i haven't. Althought i still love the F-body.. the only reason i would own another would be as a daily driver.. but for now... VETTE ALL THE WAY!!!

 

I am almost 40 with one kid graduating from college and the other graduating from high school. For me, I want a Camaro as a once a week/weekend toy I can play with and take for cruises up to the wine country or the Sierras. About the only "luxuries" I would desire are probably leather seats and A/C. The rest are secondary and not important, and otherwise I want a low priced, no frills 2+2 RWD sports coupe that rides, handles and performs like a Camaro should. (Heck after all the problems I've had with my 4th gen's power windows and locks, I probably don't even want those.)

If I want a luxury cruiser for long trips and need to haul luggage, I already have my wife's Tahoe. Sure I'd love a Cadillac sedan as my daily driver, but I know it isn't practical, and the Tahoe fits my need as an all-in-one utiltarian vehicle. I swear to God though if GM came out with a 2WD "SS" version of the Tahoe, I'd trade my 02 LS and 95 Z28 in for one TODAY.

To me it sounds more and more like what Darth and others are asking for is a Cadillac "Camaro" and not a Chevrolet "Camaro". That's not a bad thing either, as we already have a "Cadillac" version of the Corvette. Maybe what GM needs to do is build a sister car that can be the all-in-one ultra luxury ponycar. However they are still going to need that low-frills base Camaro to sell to the masses if they are going to make the whole thing work economically.

Yeah, we do change, and mature as we grow older. What we would have lived with as teen or in our early twenties, we won't neccessarily sacrifice now in a daily driver. I love my first gens and yes they're a kick in the pants to drive, but I'd never consider using them as daily commute cars, even if it made sense.

 

Yeah, purely anectodal.....but I'd bet a majority of the "cheap motor in a box" crowd, either bought their car used or are planning on buying their car used.

Just IMO.

 

Don't forget the faction of us out here who financially don't see the wisdom of buying a brand new car compared to a 2-3 year old lease model given depreciation. The 5th gen is probably going to be the only brand new car I own for pretty much that reason.

 

I didn't have time to read every post, but I always think of my car's lack of refinement as it having character. Its part of its personality, its part of the fun. It reminds you that the car was built for one specific purpose.


SPEED!!!!!!!!!

 

It sounds as if the people asking this question really would prefer the extra sophistication of a Caddy V series or a Vette.

What the 5th gen needs to be is not cheap "motor in a [flimsy] box' but an affordable "motor in a simple but solidly made, attractive box".

My take is that the Camaro needs to be built to a quality standard on par with the newest GM vehicles like Cobalt.. i.e. materials, panel gaps and engineering. Keep it simple but well built and squeak free (and stop skimping on the damn quality of fasteners GM). Add GMs corporate V6 and LSx V8 offerings which are already in widepread use, add a decent tranny - again GM has these. Go with the best live axle setup GM's best guys can come up with - it hasn't hurt the stang and I do not accept that GM cannot for some reason make a cost effective setup that performs as well as the stang. And I don't mean a clunky, truck rear supension cribbed from an SUV. By all means let people option their cars with bells and whistles that contribute added luxury, but draw the line at options that would throw a lot of expensive curveballs if GM had to factor in allowing for them into the design, tooling and production.

Do the above, keep the premise of the car pure: i.e. fast, sexy and a solid performer with a curb weight of around 3500-3600 like the new stang, yet make it accessible to the none hard core. The Mustang does all this (yes, yes the styling is not everyone's bag), though Ford's build quality always seems to lag a bit behind GMs latest offerings.

Styling aside which is too tame for a 5th gen, the GTO is almost this in terms of the role it fulfils, but the car is too expensive and heavy; i.e. the GTO comes in at a price I would expect to pay for a *totally* loaded 5th Gen Camaro. So assuming GM has a platform to base a 5th Gen off of (do they? - it seems they cut a lot these new platform programs), stuff that can be made into an option on the 5th gen and then improve the manufacuring process to reduce build costs rather than sacrificing the quality of the 5th gen itself to reduce the cost. And if GM would get it's platform/component sharing a@@ in gear - this would become a lot easier.

 

I think the next car will be more refined than the 4th gen, simply because not even new trucks have as little in the way of refinement as did the 4th gens.
It also depends upon what you mean by refinement. Much of what made the 4th gen unweildly had nothing to do with the live rear axle whatsoever. The doors were heavy, the interior was cheap to the extreme, it was VERY low slung, the seats were cheap, the windshield slant made it hard to climb into. All of this stuff really has nothing to do with the cost of the car - a bad design costs the same as a good design. I beleive no matter what the new Camaro turned out being, these issues would definately be fixed.
If you think that the next Camaro needs heated seats and all sorts of ammenities, than the Camaro probably isn't the right car for you IMHO. I think one of the reasons Camaro sales declined - besides the aforementioned lack of refinement - was the fact that it started to become out of reach for the primarily young people who buy it. Most Camaro;s climbed into the upper 20's and low 30's. At this price, only older people could buy it, but its a completely impractical car for older people, so less and less of them actually bought it.
The next Camaro needs to be, at least in theory, affordable for young people. I might get flamed for saying this, but I think that the crowd that drove Camaro's and Firebirds throughout the 80's are now driving SRT-4's and, well, Mustangs. Even with its nostalgic exterior, by far most Mustnags I see around are driven by young people. The next Camaro must be attainable for this crowd, and if GM needs to put in a live rear axle to get it to this price, than so be it.
Again, I am not saying the Camaro should not be refined. For a cheap price, it can still have a very nice looking interior, a beautiful exterior, and more human proportions than the last F-body. I look at the Solstice as an example of what one can expect for 20 - has a nice interior/exterior, great drive dynamics, but NO frills.

 

I had nothing but trucks until I bought my 95 Z28. I joined the Marines when I was 17 because I thought it was the toughest branch. So maybe my thought pattern is just off, but I don't want luxury. I want something that is rough. I want raw power with no frills. Maybe I haven't had my Camaro long enough to get tired of it, or ougrow it, but when I bought it, I knew it was what it is and I wanted nothing more from it and I still don't. I don't mind the low seat, I don't mind the hard interior plastic.