guionM

Great thread Darth. It's they type of thread that really makes you think. I know I had to a few days before I made a post here.

Let's just say I'm almost "up there" in age with some of the older regulars here, and although I enjoy driving the Camaro for weekend blasts, it's the SC that gets most of my seat time. It's really ironic because I got the SC to restore and turn into a quasi-showcar and the Z28 was to be my daily driver.

I had a small hernia surgery 2 years ago, and had a torn shoulder repaired back in 2001. Both times the Camaro was useless to me. About 7 years ago I threw my back out, and I had no problem driving the Mustang I had at the time.

Camaro isn't an all purpose car. It isn't a car for everyone. It's a car that a young single person can enjoy as a sole car but as you get older, Camaro becomes nothing more than a toy.

GTO or even an Infinity G35 coupe is probally more in tune with what alot of us want. It's more sophisticated, it's comfortable, and it still satisfies our "Need for Speed". Those cars are marketed to us and priced like it. People our age have long established credit or have more money to spend on a new car. Since most of us bought a Camaro 4 years ago or longer, our tastes have actually grown up somewhat. I wouldn't be quick to buy a modern version of the 4th gen, but my sone would in a heartbeat.

The odd thing in all this is the Mustang. It's a car that crosses all ages and all economic levels. The Mustang has a relatively big trunk, it has a almost sedan-like driving position, it's cheap, and it can be customized to where ever you want to take it. I went down to Monterey to run the Camaro awhile, and after coming out of the Mustang, the Camaro felt almost uncomfortable. It felt too low, too wide, and ironically the Camaro felt like sitting in a bathtub (I once said the opposite when I 1st sat in the new Mustang ).

That brings up the point as to why it's VITALLY IMPORTANT for GM to bring out the Camaro replacement ASAP!!!

Waiting till 2009 or later will find most of us in cars that will make us lothe to return to Camaro if it returns as a traditional Camaro. We are already seeing the beginings of this. Look at how many people want a Camaro that strays from the formula it's always been, even though Mustang is following the formula to a tee, and is proving wildly successful.

We are getting older and we're moving to other vehicles. Many of us will keep our Camaro or buy used ones to restore while buying other cars new.

The next Camaro can either appeal to us (sophisticated suspension, higher than Mustang prices, etc...) and lose alot of young buyers, or appeal to younger buyers and lose alot of us.

dav305z

The real trick - the one that the Mustang in particular has mastered - is to create a car that appeals to both crowds.

90rocz

This is where the Camaro detoured after the First Gen. I know we've beaten this horse BUT, I DON'T WANT A HATCH-BACK CAMARO!...gimme back the 1st gen trunk. (..and stance..)

Z28Wilson

Darth, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the Camaro to "grow up" a bit. As someone else pointed out, the Camaro should always be a bit "rough around the edges", but like Doug said in this day and age it's time to expect more out of every car. Look at the numbers. Guy has pointed out a thousand times that V8 Camaros are NOT meant for, or necessarily marketed to, early 20-somethings. What was the median income and age of a late 4th Gen buyer? Somewhere in their 40's making $60,000 a year? As much as all the kids would like it to be, a new Z28 is not the kind of car an 18 year old typically cuts his teeth on. Because the buyers are more affluent, it isn't unreasonable to expect certain modern amenities like optional heated seats, mirrors, and the like when it comes back.

SCNGENNFTHGEN

I'm also 33 and though I always wanted a Corvette too. I always had Camaros. I think maybe that some have outgrown it, but not me. As far as the IRS thing, I really could care less. I was thinking it would be nice, but it might drive the price far out of my reach. I also would really only be interested in Leater and A/C, and would lose the power window/doors/ seats, don't need heated seats either. And I would like to see it lighter than 3600lbs., a stripper... sort of. I do think it can be a live axle and still handle good. If it needs to be live axle... I'm OK with it. It do think it should not resemble 4th gen low slung style, alot of ppl didn't like this, or the hatcthback. It should be more upright with better useability for the masses, Mustang has this, they started with the ol' 5.0's now they are a little lower looking, but not to much for daily use. More like the 1st gens as 90rocz says in his post. Actually I always though this was why the 5.0's were so popular, they were like cut from the same cloth as a 1st gen Camaro. You can say I'm wacked out , or whatever but just take a look at a 1st gen, and an old 5.0 LX proportionally, and just the overall shapes very similar. And those bodies went on to be very successful for Ford, earning a rep on the track & street, and from what I hear saved the Mustang at the time. I think this had alot to do with its success. I've even had ppl say about my 2nd gen, " Ya know the one thing I never liked about those cars is they are so low to the ground", not me I always liked that but that's just me. Iv'e heard this about 3rd and 4th gens alot as well. I can see it being an issue as we get older, but I do think the car can be refined inside (like GTO) and a little off the ground feeling, not too much though, it still must handle, and still be a success live axle and all. I'm just gonna wait and see what happens then I'll judge the car. If they nail the styling it will be a hit. The GTO is a lot more upright, but they lost it on the styling for some ppl (I like it). Maybe the GTO stays the IRS car, and we get the dynamic duo back with live axle. Doubt it, but you never know. As for the Vette, still couldn't afford one, so I wait.... Even if I am one of the ones buying used(up till now), I would love to own a new Camaro, and have a soft spot for the 1st gens, so I would love a modern version with all the new powertrain, nice int., and generally all the stuff ppl complained about with the 4th gens eliminated. I think maybe they should... KISS. JMHO!

Pandamonkey

This is a fantastic thread, I've read every bit.

CrabhartZ28

The camaro is a supercar to a teenager, plain and simple. You might as well give me a Carrera. I could care less about creature comforts, as long as i have a motorized driver's seat and a CD player, and an engine i can be proud of.

But, i do know i'll eventually outgrow this mentality, I just hope i'll never need things like heated seats and self-dimming mirrors.

90rocz

I don't think it unreasonable to expect a newCamaro to out-grow its former, unrefined image. That's Adapting to the new environment not Evolving, into say, a BMW. This is after all the 21st century. I don't expect it to be as good or better than the C6, just better than the '02 Camaro, that;s all..
The older I get, the more I like the 1st gen image...but only as a theme...I don't want a warmed over '69 coming out...(Image: strutting stance, trunk, in-your-face-attitude! etc..

SCNGENNFTHGEN

There's an article in SuperChevy about a 67 G-machine where the guys talking about being a teenager. He mentions the General Lee, the Bullit Mustang. Then he says after watching the cult classic "Better of Dead", and seeing that 68 RS/SS Camaro ," That car defined everything I could ever want in a musclecar". Then goes on to describe the car! That feeling he's talking about, like being a teenager, cuz weather you are one or you wish you were again, as many ppl do as they get older. I think the Mustang has that teenager factor that makes it so popular, much like it did when it came out in the 60's. In Sept. 66 though, came a car from Chevrolet that was a lot more chiseled looking and sort of oozed Muscle. Everything about it, just looking at them you knew, they had to have some power. And they did too, ultimately if you wanted it, and had the dough you could fit any engine in GM's lineup in that sucker. Now FF rolling up on a 40th anniversary for a certain car, much like before the Mustang seems to be all alone in the class. Chevrolet once again has a golden opertunity to grab some of this market,by jumping in full force with some very subtle,but agressive and more user friendly upright styling. It does not have to be totally a copy style wise but why shouldn't it pay tribute,by carrying on a style started by the 1st gens. Even to this day ppl will pay way more for themthan a 2nd gen. I believe 69 was a very long production run, like they stoped that body style too soon, ppl couldn't get enough of them, they still can't. Lots of ppl hear I have a Camaro,I describe it,they say Oh I like the boxy ones. Even if they can't get the years straight they know the car and they know it well. To me that is Camaro. It's like the GTO guys that hate the new one,it doesn't say GTO to them. The lower slung style of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th gens, however I think some of their styling cues can still be used in a package that doesn't make it feel like you are 2" off the ground and defines a " Camaro Like Car"! It won't be easy, but I still think they can pull it off. Just because something sounds like old tech doesn't mean it is Remember "The old Pushrod Technology Lesson"

IZ28

I think that some of you are crazy. To me age has nothing to do with liking Camaros and all things Camaro. There's not much like taking a "specialty car" out for a cruise in nice weather or going to shows. I think people here concentrate too much on stats and little things then call themselves enthusiasts only to later look like complainers, hypocrits, and contradictors. If you are crazy for Camaros, you don't just simply go onto something else because it's there or newer. If so, you are not a true enthusiast. If anything, the M*stang is getting more Camaro-like as time goes on. Also, 1st Gens were advertised as low and sporty back then and they were at the time I guess you could say, they just progressed over the years and became more of what the designers really wanted when they were designing that 1st Gen. The Camaro is a sporty musclecar, not a simple coupe with sporty looks just incorporated into it like M*stangs. They were purposely built for all-around performance and aerodynamics. If this is something you do not like, then no, the Camaro is not the car for you, maybe the competitor is though.

Can the Camaro have softer models? Sure, they did try it before but it could probably be done better today. There should also be a model with all the modern options. They would all be nice additions, but there still has to be that lower, aggressive, straight performance Camaro that people don't usually daily drive and just doesn't feel like others cars, even in it's class. The car also doesn't have to be over the top like 4ths, a Third Gen rake and similar seating with the car a little higher than a 4th yet lower than an 05 GT would be a good compensation. The longer this hiatus goes on the more fans are swaying because of this idiotic GM we've been dealing with. Good job guys, real good.

NewbieWar

I think its somewhat Ironic that a good percentage of the people on this site, would enjoy to see the camaro be rereleased, although how many people would buy it?

but on the note of luxuary doesnt the SS have all the luxuray stuff?

I'm not saying that Im out growing my f-body im 19 and i love my green machine more than just about anything right now (except my dog)...

I dont need all the luxuray stuff its nice to have a good leather comfy seat w/ heater a/c... defrosters that worked, t-tops, and a big damn engine

some styling would be nice, like the ws6 was outstanind!

Bad AZz Z28

I have thought about this for awhile, so this thread fits along perfect with what I've had on my mind.

I'm 23, with my masters and a job at a financial institution. I'm one of few there that drives a car like this. But everyone likes it, I cant begin to tell you how often I get people coming up to me, reminiscing about how their old muscle car sounded like that, or that their husband drove one like that when they first met, its great to hear.

I thought about getting a Vette, and I would still love to have one as a daily driver. I drove a freinds 2000 hardtop and it was incredible, I hadnt even known a car could feel that good driving around the block. I could see where an IRS camaro set up correctly could be a fantastic ride. And yes, now that I have two main camaros, sometimes I wish one was a 'race car on the street' and the other more 'civilized' Vette type. But I'm also an extreme case that requires a 10 second winter car. So I dont think Camaro needs to cater to what I want, yet I still think it can do the job.

I have no problem saying that the Camaro should take ideas from the stang. It wouldnt be the first time one of them borrowed from the other. And not to bring in the styling argument, but this is my reason for wanting a more 'retro' car that some others may want. Not because I need a 69 camaro again, but because it was impressive without being over the top, it was upright and comfortable while still being slick and stylish, it worked for people daily driving, and it worked at the track. A modern interpretation of camaro should incorporate these things. If it looks great, runs good, and is on par with the comfort of the industry, it could sell the way mustangs do, the way 3rd gens did. I think that is more important to its survival than what rear axle it has, if my seats are heated, or what suspension gets the job done.

It needs to be stylish, fun, and affordable...plus have a 'mean streak' option (what a great selling point those Z/28s had huh)

GM has the styling, the name, the recognition, the advertising opportunity, the engines, the drivetrains, and the history to do it. Keep it simple, get it done, and I'll promise not to grow out of it. Just hurry up, before we use up all the gas and have to drive boring-mobiles that will have everyone saying "man I wish I had just had more fun with my camaro while I could"

SRFCTY

Just give us a "mature" Camaro, that closes follows the Mustang formula for success (i.e. driving dynamics, good ingress/egress, trunk, good looks, easily modified, bang-for-buck, etc.) but improves on any Mustang shortcomings, and I feel most people will be satisfied, along with hopefully gaining new respect and customers from people that wouldn't normally consider a Camaro. it doesn't have to be "World Class", which would price it out of reach, but rather "Class Leading". Shouldn't be hard to do. I see a lot of older folks driving Mustangs, so a Camaro with proper dynamics could still appeal to all ages.

Jason E

Some of you guys are sounding a little old I think the key problem is that you're looking at a car built until 2002, with a chassis from 1993 (or 1982 if you wanna be technical ), look at GM's potential cost-cutting future moves and ASSUME a new Camaro will have, built-in, all the same compromises the '02 has. This is understandable. When you have NOTHING to really use to change your mindset, of course you can feel a new Camaro may not be for you...

But then, look at the Mustang. Look how far ahead that car is from the old generation. I drove my Z28 last night for the first time since November, having just taken it out of winter hibernation. 4 years after buying it, after 7 years of driving Camaros, I love that car more than ever. Granted, I drive it 3k/year now as a summer/weekend toy. But, I thought to myself, how great would it be to be able to drive a car like this EVERY DAY? The power, the handling, the style...I miss not having a Camaro for a daily driver. If it wasn't for snow, I'd have a 3800/5 speed as a daily driver for sure. Sure, my GP rides better, is roomier and quieter. But there's something about that low, wide feeling and that power that's just intoxicating. Sure, with a 3800 5 speed, the power would be quite less as a daily driver. But the style and the feel are what make me love Camaro most.

Give GM the chance to make a new chassis for the car with better NVH, ride quality and a better quality interior, and I bet a bunch of you will change your mind. But when all you have to go by is a car last built 3 years ago, that was archaic by the mid-'90s, what else can you mentally go by right now?

poSSum

Built on a proper foundation I don't understand why the 5th gen shouldn't be able to price match the Mustang at the entry level plus have the option of being dragged through the high margin GM parts bin to satisfy those of us that are "outgrowing" the Camaro. Considering that MY 2002 almost 50% of V8's and over 25% of overall Camaro sales were SS's, there doesn't seem to be all that much resistance to pulling out the checkbook. If you don't cater to that market it will be that much more difficult to build the overall business plan that can compete with the Mustang.