Physical size/dimensions
Similar interior ergonomics
Intent/mission/whatever you want to call it
Seating capacity (horse beating will commence now)

That's what I got. If that's not enough (and for you and others, I'm sure it isn't), then I guess we will just disagree.

Have no issues with that. Don't see where it relates to comparing the vehicles in questing, but I have no arguement with the content.

And I'd bet they wouldn't. The problem is (as you alluded to), you can't prove your side any more or better than I can prove mine - which takes us back to the point (several posts ago) in which I said we disagree, and will likely continue to do so, no matter how much pontificating we don on the subject.

Agreed.

Uh...agree that it is probably easier to live with day to day (ingress/egress mainly), but I don't so much agree that those less concerned with performance will be the ones buying it (though some no doubt will). However, you could equally suggest that many folks buy Vettes just to have a "cool car".

That's it - I was wrong, the Vette and GT500 should be compared because they are "cool cars".

(please try and see the humor/sarcasm there)

Concur.

I disagree (though I agree that I can exxagerate quite a bit if I want too...though I assume most people can see the intent and reasoning of said exxageration. Obviously I'll have to spell it out a bit better next time).

Disagree completely. Been over and over and over it, so I'll leave it at that.

Please remind me not to put smartass "PS" statements at the end of my posts anymore.

Thanks.

Enjoy your car.
Bob

 

Bob, Kyle, wow, stop playing hard to get. It's obvious y'all both have feelings for each other, quit dancing around the subject.

I originally had an opinion on this car/thread, but I've since forgotten it. I think everyone should just buy 2nd gens.

 

Who is Kyle?

 

I think the objection focuses on your third criteria, the mission of the cars.

The GTO is softly sprung, has mild brakes and gets good gas mileage in a relatively civil and quiet near-lux package.

The GT500 has a much harsher suspension, brakes off a race car and gets carbed big block gas milage.

So what i'm getting at is:

I'd venture that most buy GTOs as daily drivers. From what i see on gto boards, that's how most are used. This owes to what i said above, it's very civil and comfortable to drive for any distance, and does so with decent power, performance and great gas milage relative to that power.

OTOH, most people do not buy corvette's as daily drivers. Do some people drive them daily, of course. One of my best friends here at work does (except winter anyway). But on the flip side, on a sunny day vettes come out of the woodwork all over my parking lot. I think it's safe to say these people are driving something else to work most of the time, they take their toys out when the weather is good.


So the big question to me is, would someone buying a $40k car with a rock hard suspension, no gas mileage, race car brakes and ludicrous horsepower be more likely to drive it everyday, or treat it as a weekend toy? I lean towards the latter, and thus why the vette makes more sense as a comparison.


btw, when i bought my GTO, i did cross shop the 04 cobra too since they were similarly priced. Wasn't even a difficult comparison to make, except for performance the cobra had nothing i wanted going for it, i wasn't buying a toy, i was buying my new DD. Now the equivalent ford is almost $10K more than GTO, and still loses on everything except performance when comparing the cars prowess as a DD. It has a worse interior, worse ride and worse gas milage.

 

Lol, those damn poser mustangs, the GT is a poser performance car, and the Shelby is a poser daily driver Man I gotta wonder what it is about three letter car names, it just does something to people???

 

And thus ignoring the other 3? Do they not count - even the price?

I don't know about the GT500, but past Cobra's were not "harsh" in comparison to regular GTs. And please remember, we're going into this with the accepted assumption that the GT and GTO is/was a "fair" comparison. Also, how do you know that the GT500 has a "much harsher suspension"? That is an assumption that could possibly be accurate, but I doubt it is likely.

Why would excellent brakes be any sort of detraction - at all - for any purpose?

Gas mileage on the GT500 sucks. No doubt about it. How bad is it? Depending upon which magazine you read (no EPA figures released yet), it looks like the mileage will will be virtually identical to an A4 equipped GTO (16/21).

I agree.

Sounds reasonable to me. Has nothing to do with the GT500, but sounds reasonable.

Well, we covered the "rock hard suspension" (way off base, IMO), no gas mileage (same as A4 GTO - which gets "good gas mileage"), race car brakes (stopping fast seems to be bad), and ludicrous HP (its pretty high, no doubt about that - and that's bad for a performace coupe?).

I'm sorry, I don't see/agree with your reasoning/logic.

When I bought my 04 Cobra, I briefly cross-shopped 05 GTOs (didn't care for an 04). It wasn't a difficult decision for me either - and I drove my Cobra 15k+ miles (DD) in less than a year.

My choice was right for me, your choice was right for you. To each their own.

BTW....the GTO does not exist for MY 2007, so there is no "equivalent". Even if there was, I thought the GTO was comparible to the Mustang GT?

Bob

 

My 04 Cobra had Brembo brakes. I don't remember them being touchy at all - nor did I have to "warm them up". I should caveat that with the fact that I am not even sort of a "road racer" type of person, and thus cannot even pretend to be an expert on the subject. My Cobra was my daily transportation.

In the end, like many other things, it all remains to be seen.

Bob

 

All you need to make a comparison is 2 objects.

 

Are you comparing a manual in the GT500 to an automatic in the GTO?

Dan

 

LOL. Didn't take long for that to come up, did it?

No, I'm not comparing the gas mileage of the A4 GTO to the M6 GT500, as I am fully aware that the M6 GTO gets notably better mileage. I was simply pointing out that the GT500 gets very similar (estimated) mileage to the A4 GTO, in response to and as a counter to the poster's statement.

Bob

 

By the way, I did think your original comment was very witty, and gave me a chuckle. You're right. The A4 in the GTO is nothing to be admired for.

Dan

 

I think both Bob and Threxx have valid points, both are "right" and "wrong".

In my opinion, the new Shelby Mustang/Cobra is a result of careful thought by Ford "marketeers". Carroll Shelby has a ton more brand equity among boomers than the SVT branding does. The Shelby will not be a lot of money for a vehicle...< you don't need to look too hard to find an SUV that's as much or more > but it is a lot for a Mustang. It's a case of playing the retro theme all the way out: and for whatever it's worth.

Barrett-Jackson's auctions might net result as the complete detriment, or be keeper of the gospel of car collecting in America.

It remains to be seen. Regardless, there's some truths that emerge.

What's clear to any looking, < and folks in high places that depend on car sales for a living do look >, is that the word "Hemi" has a huge perception value which denotes "way fast", way "more worth owning"... and the name "Shelby" has a perception value which increases the desirability associated to any Ford vehicle Carroll "touched".. even ones he had zero involvement in.

IMHO, Ford is testing the waters in a price range. It's a stretch and they know it's a stretch. Ford has made little statements in past couple of years that they would be aiming at Corvette. I don't believe they were serious about making a Thunderbird capable of the job, nor that Mustang had the juice in all the departments.... Nope... but, I do think it's a statement meant to get the "Corvette - like" boomers excited. Rally the "faithful" that can afford a 45k-50k car purchase with discretionary abandon < which isn't present when house payments and college tuition looms >. Fire up the car conscious 42-47 years olds who happen to be $60k-$100k household income demographic, and LOVE FORD and HATE Chevy's.

THESE are what I'm willing to believe is their Shelby Mustang intender/target.

This group of buyers are already there. They are brand loyal to Ford. They know well Carroll Shelby/Ford's racing sucess, and are aware...WELL aware with money in fist, and chomping to buy the car they want if only it's offered.

It's not the Corvette market. No, but it is very like the 'vette market in some respects. It's a market that enjoys the idea of kicking Corvette ***.

Believe me, it's a market that would love to own a Chevy killer, BUT, Only if it's a Ford. That's the Shelby Cobra Mustang segment experiment.

Be confident... Preaching to the Choir isn't always "un-lucrative" in the car biz. I'd venture there's about 8500 a year for a year or two.

What I truly see as the important comparison to consider will be how the Shelby will stack up to the market's expectations for it.

If the market, which is.. IMHO, already out there, sees it as a "real Shelby 'stang"? It will sell about 2.5 year's worth at high transaction price.

If it misses it's target market's expectations and is seen as a pretender?

In this case, I see the SVT brand would be returned with huge fanfare and adulation. "Hail the rightful top dog!"...I can just hear it...Coletti brought back as a consultant. Younger performance customer's will cheer and Shelby will still spend the money he was paid... and will still be a 60's racing legend. It's almost cinematic...don't ya think?

In one respect, I think Bob has a better sell on this discussion. Maybe by deduction, maybe by coincidence. I think the new GTO and this high dollar Shelby were/are both fishing expeditions by their respective brands.

The acceptance each as products sent out to determine a market will be the comparison worth noting.

 

Actually, one funny thing I see, in this debate, is the premise that many people actually cross shop the Vette............... or will actually cross shop the GT500............ with anything.

Frankly, the majority of Vette buyers............. are Vette buyers. When they go out to buy the car, it isn't this brand and model against this brand and model.............. it is "what color and options do I want on my Vette."

The GT500 will be pretty much the same.

They are both iconic nameplates that sell themselves based on what they are. Most people who will be buying either, will leave the house, and already know that they want to buy a Vette.............. or that they are buying a GT500.

Why don't we just accept comparisons like these, for what they are. A way for magazines to sell issues. It is no different than a magazine comparing the latest popular "gotta have it" car, to an F16............ or something silly like that (which they do all the time).

BTW, I do agree with Bob on the controversy. To compare a dedicated, stand alone, pure sportscar............. against a compromised (by necessity, due to the fact that it shares much with an existing, $18K car), 4-seat pony/gt car, is rather silly. If they layman cannot figure out which car will win that comparison, in advance, in a performance test........... then they are an idiot.

 

You really didn't even have to say that - anyone who knows you and Bob could predict when Ford is in question you two will generally be in agreement.

 

Good god, no kidding.