VladimirSteel

i still cant believe ford is using 5 speed trannys... if anything thats something they are behind the times on... camaro had a m6 15 years ago... I dont believe this will be the "god" motor that every mustang owner is hoping for either. Sure, we might se a honest 400hp, but i dont see mustang being as light as people are saying in the next gen, and i suspect the awful gearing that plagues mustangs will carry over into this car. I am thinking this new mustang is going to hide its horsepower as much as we have heard the camaro hides its weight, and hp is one thing that is bad when hidden... The mustang guys may be getting "serious", but its taken the svt guys to make the mustang any kind of real serious car ever since the mustang came out of the mustang 2 days...

96_Camaro_B4C

Speaking of engine weight and Ford mod motors vs. LS2 / LS3, this new engine is a 32V version, so it will now be even bigger, and will likely no longer be lighter than the LSx engines (like the 4.6L SOHC supposedly is).

Still, I could handle a 3600 lb, 400 hp Mustang convertible.

guionM

Why do you think charging 4 grand more for the V8 is stupid?

Base V6 4th gens listed for about $18K. 4th gen Z28s started at $22K.
That's a $4,000 more than the V8.
In the Mustang, the V8 is roughly $5K over the V6.
A V8 in the Impala runs $7K over the base model.
In the Charger, it's nearly $10K.

Unless you're buying a Corvette or a Crown Victoria, we've been paying high premiums for V8s for years.

How many years ago did you "hear" a rumor about the the 5.0? I've only heard it from ACTUAL Ford people only for about a few months, meaning they've probably been working on it for only about a year or so. There has been a 5.0 racing crate engine out for the past 4 years.

The latest gossip (that was actually grounded in fact) has the Ecoboost V6 coming up in a version of the Mustang, and not as a replacement of the V8.


Lets see...

A 5.3 pushrod engine that gets 303 horsepower.
A 5.0 overhead cam engine that gets 400 horsepower.

400 is more than 300.

A 6.2 liter engine that gets either 395 or 422 horsepower.
A 5.0 liter engine that gets around 400 horsepower.

The number 5 is smaller than the number 6.2.

Yes... I think I comprehend the concept of counting.

Why, do you need some help with that???

Z284ever

Yeah, I know. I was referring to the next gen around '13/'14.

96_Camaro_B4C

422 (and 436) > 400

Cam-in-block LS3 is smaller, lighter, and likely more fuel efficient than a 32V DOHC 5.0L mod V8.

7000 rpm > 6600 rpm, which is cool, but otherwise, LSx still reigns.

ProudPony

Well now I wouldn't say that... (with exclusive rights to this winky-club via 2 different sources)

Rest of the post is exceptional - as usual.

Mr Farley made a request at the recent National MCA show for folks to start sending him letters on what they want to see in the next Mustang. He is specifically interested in detailed info about chassis, powertrain, body and interior. Not the "I want a sunscreen windveil aquamarine blue teal color-changing paintjob" kind of stuff. He has vowed to answer any questions he can regarding improvements, and has invited an unprecedented "conversation" between the people in the MCA and Team Mustang... so much so that the letters - both to and from - are being published in the Mustang Times Magazine. Mary-Jean Wesche is personally taking-on the task of publishing all the letters sent to her. I can tell you from what got published in this months mailing that weight and size are at least 40% of the inputs so far.

Other folks inside Ford's walls are on-record at public events as saying that the effort to lighten the future cars is under way. Horbury's comments about tryint to make the 2010 look smaller even though it isn't getting smaller, certainly indicates that he is atuned to the issue as well.


Now back to this 5.0 thing... someone mentioned it has been rumored for years and never shown up. Well, that's kinda true, but kinda not true. There's been a 5.0 variant here for several years, and there are many of them out in the world already - in various FR-series racers and as crate engines bought from Ford Racing. I can assure you they run quote well, displace 5.0, and won't have a problem making the HP numbers quoted.

Put yourself in Ford's shoes... if you had it done, would you simply throw it in the next car available and start selling it to the public, or would you make a pile of dough selling it to racers first, testing it under the most abusive conditions, refining it, and preparing it for mass production roll-out a few years later? I think Ford has done the best thing they could do with the engine program given the existing conditions in the market. I'll be willing to bet you that the mass-produced variant of the 5.0 that we end up with in the future GT will be a bulletproof piece that will deliver all they say it will (and likely a bit more based on their recent track record).

Why show your hand before the final round of bets has been placed on the table by everyone else?

detltu

Displacement has no value except in bench racing. It pays no dividend on its own in any performance category. If I have an 8 Liter V8 that makes 400 hp and you have a 4 Liter V8 that makes 400 hp and the two engines are the same size, weight and have the same fuel consumption then the only real difference is on paper. If anyone can show me a real world benefit between the two engines I have described then they get a cookie. Ford has been playing catch up and with this engine they have done that and more. GM will be playing catch up but not because of DOHC, or higher hp/L. They will be playing catch up because the Mustang flat out performs the Camaro (if these rumors turn out to be true).

guionM

Owned, huh?

Do you even know what you're talking about?

If you do and have examples, then post them please, so I don't think I'm talking to a chest beating, self congratulating cheerleader.

Try a few more smileys next time... you don't have enough.

I agree with everything you said except the "catch up" part. I'm a fan of the LS engines, and personally I have never owned anything with a Ford modular engine. But that doesn't stop me from being impressed with it, and be honest about areas where it does well as well as point out where it doesn't. I also am honest enough to point to the pros and cons to the LS engine as well.

That said, idea that the Ford engine caught up to anything is ludicrous. Every time someone brings that up, they point to the horsepower of a bigger engine. Whenever the supercharged Cobra or Lightning engines let alone the Ford GT or GT500 are brought up, then someone backpedals and says something to the tune of "well, they can't do it without a supercharger". By that logic, the Chrysler SRT V10 is a superior engine than the LSA engine because it has more pistons and produces more horsepower without a supercharger.

Everyone will agree that the DI 3.6 V6 producing 300 horsepower is a top powered engine. From a power standpoint, we marvel that a engine that size is producing the same power of a 325ci V8 "mini LS2". We don't say "Oh.. they finally caught up".


Correct, but with that same yardstick, one can also say well equipped SSs will go well past $30K.


We don't disagree much, but when we do we have intellegent debates. You also have that rare ability to take an honest look at a car's merits and appriciate what the other guys have to offer and I can'ty remember you ever posting anything that was ill thought out.

In my case, I have the opposite issue. it's not the boasting about the new 5.0 but the feeling of some that the LS engines are the posterchild of high tech futuristic engineering and that somehow Ford's engines simply can't keep up with GM's wunderengine.

The LS engine is a very good engine. It's purpose for existing is to create the a V8 that puts out the most power in the smallest package possible. It was almost purpose built to fit into the nose of the low beltline Corvette. GM did an awesome job, and I have praised GM powertrain often for what they managed to do.

On the flip side, the Ford modular engine is also a very good engine. Compact size wasn't as vital since the smallest space it has to fit in is the Mustang. It also is (despite every logic that you'd expect considering it's size) lighter and creates alot of power in a relatively small combustion area. In the modular engine, Ford also took engineering that was only on expensive cars from Europe and managed to put it in low priced, work-a-day Mustangs, pickup trucks, and police sedans. Perhaps a more difficult feat than externally shrinking a big displacement V8.

If GM managed to get 6.2 liter LS3 power out of the 5.3 LS4 engine in the Impala SS and Buick Lacrosse Super (regardless as to how it was done) we'd be celebrating all over the web. If GM managed to get LSA like 550 horsepower out of that engine, we'd all be worshiping GM as engineering marvels (including me). Ford got roughly 500 horsepower out of 5.4 liters (GT500) not to mention 550 (Ford GT).

You don't need to tell me about Ford of the 90s. That's how I ended up with 3 4th gen Camaros in a row.

I wouldn't say the new Mustangs are behind the LS1 F-cars. The Mustangs feel too much like the 4th gen cars IMHO. The post 2000 LS1 cars are notably quicker than the earlier versions... post 2000 the engines were essentially LS1 engines with LS6 induction systems... GTs ran to 60 and the quarter on par with early LS1s (yes, I still have the flame suit on ). I too like the design of the new Mustang, but because it feels too much like the car I already have I don't see a need to go into debt for 4 or 5 years to have something I already have.... but I'll be all over a '03-'04 Cobra if I find a good one at a good price.

Z284ever

Now that there is very exciting to me.

guionM

It'd be nice if you're right. Although there is probably no way the current Mustang design would look right on an SN 95 body, I do prefer the size of the previous Mustang.

If Ford's "Hail Mary" move works and Ford makes quite a bit of money again, then I think we can look forward to it. If it doesn't or is only mediocore in success, then, like the Fox chassis and then the SN95, we'll likely be looking at the current Mustang architecture for many years to come.

Big Als Z

I still dont see Ford making a 400hp 5.0 motor without some additional technology.
A N/A, SFI 5.0 making 400hp? I heard that the number was "revised" and that a direct injected 5.0 "could" make 400hp, but a regular SFI that will show up inthe GT will be 370-370-380hp/360ftlbs range.
Again...Ill belive it when I see it.
People also say it will be lighter, but considering how flimsy the platform is compared to the Camaro, a lighter car is going tobe a drawback. Drag racer? Sure, the Mustang could put up some real threat to the Camaro SS.
Overall, Camaro SS will still top the Mustang and Challenger by a good deal.
If Ford sets the GT to handle the additional power, that means more structure as well as improving what else they have.

IMO, 2011 Mustang GT, 3750lbs, 375hp 5.0, 5spd auto 6spd manual, better ABS modulation they learned from the KR, revised body pannels, be faster then an Challenger RT, come near the Camaro SS.

As for the price, the price tag on Fordvehicles.com for a Ford Mustang GT Premium package, which is probably the closest you will get to a Camaro SS's trim package, starts just over 28k.
Expect the 2011 Mustang GT to start around there, and the premium to be just under 30k.

Ford Mustang GT will once again return to the also-ran sports coupe. Ford fans nation wide felt that cold shivver Jan 6th, 2006, and now that cold front is only a few weeks away...

guionM

Now THAT'S what I remember about Ford back when I was piloting Mustangs and going to events and in contact with a few people from the company!

That's also what annoyed me about GM and Camaro. Ford actually had people from the company going out to events and getting feedback on the company payroll. At GM, they had Scott who did most all of his Camaro appearences and gathering feedback on his own almost in his spare time.Think about all those post Auto Show gathering of Camaro guys talking. That was on his own time.All the info and feedback he gathered up till the project restarted (even while Camaro was still around), that was his own inititive. Ford has guys on the clock whose job it is to do this sort of stuff.

boomer78

its a PFI 4v 5.0L v8 with some other 'tricks' up its sleeve.
Mustang fans will get a great car in 2010, they'll get an even better one in 2011.

The F150 engine will be around the 360hp mark, the GT in the 400hp territory.

Believe what you want, it's coming.

And it won't weigh 3750lbs.... unless you stuff a dead moose in the trunk.

My Red 93Z-28

MonkeyManZ28

guion i have respected u for years and agreed with u but u r totally wrong on this one, u r simply speculating!!! btw u dont everything!!!:O wned::Owned

put that in your pipe and smoke it!!!!!