[EDIT by Moderator: Please read your terms of membership - flaming is not permitted.] I am not suggesting using 462 stock GM castings, on the other hand for a street engine this is most likely too much. Yes I have seen a set of 18° heads before, a customer of mine purchased a set for a drag only application, I believe it was something like a 5000 stall with a powerglide in a Chevy II

 

Yeap you pinned the tail on the donkey there Jay..... I'm glad you noticed, and I'm not appologizing for who I am to you. At least you can say it to me this time rather than hide behind another name for once. I've grown out of that phase where everyone has to like me buddy. You notice the rest of my comments directed at others are at a standard social level, that's respect for people that act like adults on here. Don't expect anything from me as far as respect goes since you finally came out from behind your rock and actually said something to my face for a change. Why don't we drop this now... and give John his thread back.

Anywhoo..... back to the topic at hand. Maybe I can ADD some real context to the thread.

18* GM, Edelbrock, TFS, Brodix etc.... are different from a 18X.... as Caddie said. That's the clue here, they are not your normal 18* head so they have differences that play a big part in working on a street motor vs. a race motor.

The 18X can't flow like a standard 18* due to the pushrod pinch area.... THIS IS THE SAME REASON STANDARD 23* STUD MOUNTS CAN BE USED TOO. To look at something like a Hutter Edelbrock 18* http://www.weldtech.com/products/Hut...k_HUT9215.html

Or Even better the 18* Brodix castings.....

http://www.weldtech.com/products/AP_Brodix_18.html

Your not going to get there with a 18X, not going to happen. Then again the min cross sectional area of the Edl 18* is 2.67, 2.72 on the Big Brodix, or 15-20% more than the 18X, and that dam pushrod pinch still limits you. But you get to save $$$ on the shaft mounts.

At the same time saying this 18X head is too big is laughable.... looking at a bare casting (and not the bare CNC version) this thing could work on a 358 cube motor staying under 7000rpm from the sizes I just measured off of it.... IF you knew what you were doing. Some of us do, some don't.

I had to get some measurements to compare it to a Comp Ported AFR 210 on the bench as well. The port length is a big difference here for these two heads along with the height from the bottom of the port to the deck surface. The 18X has a .500" longer port than the AFR 210.... So when you do the math the 18X works out to be about a 220-225cc 23deg head. That's on the small side for what John is talking about 383-406 and up to 7,000-7,500rpm. The distance from the deck to the bottom of the port is a big difference. It's almost a 1" higher for the 18X, and the short side raidus is nice and tall and can really be laid back if you wanted to.... This makes for a much better port on something where you have really high speeds over the short side. You can actually have a smaller cross section port work BETTER in the 18X over the standard 23* stuff we normally use.

For $1500 bare and going from there with a light port job and a good valve job these things are actually a steal. It's not easy to get a 2.140-2.170" valve in a 23*head and have all the other advantages that this head gives you for that amount. Getting a real 260cfm @.400 and 325cfm in a 23* casting is not going to be just a light port job and good valve job, it's going to take a good amount of work. Even if you take a AFR 23* RR head that's bare the $400 less for the head is going to be made up in the work needed to get the port to working size and flowing like this thing. Let alone put some time and money into a really good port job and 340-345cfm is not out of the question. AND YOU COULD STILL RUN IT AS A HYD ROLLER!

If anyone noticed the 10* face angle on the intake flange is standard 23* chevy. That's helpfull in that now you can use intake manifolds that have a small enough cross section for the street/strip applications you use this on. Plus normal 18* intakes are $80-$100 more.

Again just the humble opinion of a @sshole who doesn't know anything.

Bret

 

Others have pretty much answered the question but this was directed at me so I'll give you my 2 cents worth.

Well yeah... if you consider the raised-runner 23º variants. But these are just wannabe 18º heads that still require a matched port intake.

You'll find guys on here who will lie to you and tell you that going fast doesn't cost much but I aint one of them.

You can spend dollars... or you can spend cubic dollars and I'm simply suggesting that the Little Chief approach is the later. It isn't even a feasible head for the LT1 for issues already mentioned.

Believe me, I have talked to just about everyone and their grandmother about these heads. I'd really love to use them in my next build but I'm not going to another block to get there.... not with the money I have tied up in this one.

"All the way" may very well be $2-4k more than some people have to spend. To an extent you're right in that I personally would never sink the kind of money some will in a set of 23º heads. The All Pro's have been mentioned and they're case and point. Just doesn't make sense to me to spend that kind of money when 18, 14 and 15º heads are so plentiful. DON'T think about it from the standpoint of buying everything from GM, Brodix, etc., cause you'll lose your trousers there. I'd bet that close to 50% of the deals I've seen have been on bare heads (no porting) and included the intake, rockers and valves.

Not to say that there aren't some great 23º heads out there, cause there are. Problem is, the really good ones cost too darn much.

Do some more research and you'll answer your own question on that one.


Bore centers are ok. You'll just need to find a way of putting the LT1's lifter bores in different locations.

And of course Bret is right on the money. If you look at the 18º heads and compare them to a 23º, you're gonna get confused unless you consider the fact that these heads have a longer port length.

-Mindgame

 

Bret,
Do you have access to a set of true 18º heads, where you can maybe make some side by side comparison photos?

If not, is it possible that you could post photos of the 18X? I'm sure I can find some hi-res pics of it's wicked step sister.

Thanks.

-Mg

 

Actually, someone can help me here...

I see references to 18 degree heads and 18X heads.

I know what 18 degree heads are, in terms of the angle of the valve stem to the deck, but the 18X... is that sort of a blend between 18 & 23 degree? Am I reading that right?

 

Just by way of explanation...
I fantasize about buying a set of perfect heads and then building the engine around it. That tends to lead me down these paths maybe more than it should. Sorry about that.

 

Lame,

Check out Brodix's site. The link John gave at the beginning of this thread covers quite a bit of it.
http://www.brodix.com/18STDX%2618SPX.html

-Mindgame

 

custom headers for the 18X?

 

It'd be nice if we kept Advanced Tech a "bicker free zone". I don't get the whole concept of "exotic" heads on an LT1. Keep it (relatively) cheap and simple or forget the LT1. At least that's how I see it.

Rich

 

Amen!

I guess we get a little spoiled here.... flaming and calling people names, and other childish posts seem few and far between.

For those who seem to want to turn this into some sort of character assassination thread, take it outside. Thank you.

Please stick to the technical issues, or the posts will be deleted. Don't override the language filter.

 

If someone has a problem with someone else here, take it up with them privately. This site is not meant to be used for problems like that. Please keep your arguments to yourselves.

In addtion, it is against site rules to solicit business by using any method without being a paying sponsor here. This site has bills to pay like anyone else, and there is no such thing as a free lunch. If this site is going to be used as a tool to make money, people need to step up and become a Supoorting Vendor like everyone else does.

 

I don't have any 18* stuff laying around.....

BUT I will get some pics at the shop tomorrow and e-mail them out...

What do you want to see on these things... any special details?


Rich, Fred, Jason, everybody.... Sorry, about me even getting into a cat fight here, but there is only so much crap I can take before I have to say something. THANKS for deleting the posts that are BS, EVEN MINE. Sometimes I wish we had **** mods like some social forums I have seen where your post gets deleted for being off topic, bad spelling or bad grammar... and on top of it you text is deleted out and the repremand is left for you so you know WHY it was deleted.... nothing like having your mouth shut and told to behave or you can't play.

Bret

 

Mindgame

Is this the deal that your talking about??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...spagename=WDVW

Pretty complete and plus pistons too


-john

 

Guys,

Thanks for all of the info this thread definately cleared up a few questions that I had, Bret, Mindgame, great info and very much appreciated. Ill keep my eyes open looking for deals on the 18* stuff and hopefully come across something good. Ive still got alot of suspension, and drivetrain stuff on the car to finish putting together and what not sp hopefully that will get taken together really soon.

I guess its pretty much going to come down to money, If I can swing the 18x setup then thats what Im going to do since there is much more potential in those heads. Plus I figure that I might as well spend the money once as to doing a 23* setup and changing later down the road and do It right the first time.

Bret thats a pretty good price on those heads you mentioned in your email that your buddy has, let me know what else you find out about them and maybe well go from there. Im liking the weldtechs also they look to be very impressive especially if youve been having good results with them. At this point I have alot of different possibilities and its still pretty much up in the air so I have to see how it goes, makes it tough tho that I cant get the shortblock together ahead of time since it depends on pistons but oh well..

THANKS for the Info tho guys,
-john

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but if this is a street/strip car which it sounds like it is.... why stick within certain guidelines like 23* heads? I see it alot like SBC vs BBC. Chasing BB performance with a SB becomes VERY expensive, just like chasing 18* performance w/ 23* heads. The 18x heads allow you the best compromise of price vs performance with regard to higher end/custom builds IMO.

Then again, Im a firm believer in massive BBC motors