I'd try it. I'm not familiar with Ford TBs though. Is a 65mm an aftermarket size? Regardless, I would just pick up a stocker TB from a mustang person and try it out. The only real added cost is the $300 adapter until you purchase an aftermarket TB. However, you are saving a couple hundred bucks from buying the Wilson elbow and machining it down.

My first question would be if the IAC motor would interfere with the waterpump housing. I don't think it would, but just a thought. Then, a little homework and some creativity for the linkage, if you have to.

Seems like its getting too easy to go fast with LTx motors! Almost as easy as modding an LS1 .

Ryan

 

I'm curently in Iraq and wouldn't be in a position to try and figure it out, and to be honest, I'm just not that confident in my ability. Maybe I'm just leery of the arrows that come with being a pioneer . I e-mailed this thread to a buddy that I believe could do it, and if there isn't a bolt on solution by the time I get back, who knows.

 

The stocker for the 4v Cobra/Lightning guys is a 57mm twin. I've seen flow numbers in the ~1050 cfm @ 28" H2O range so it's no slouch. The 65mm is aftermarket and if you're gonna go that route you might as well hop to the monoblade. Some monos will go 1700+ and IMO, you'll only need that once you start pushing more than 600 out.

Yeah, nothing from Keith Wilson's shop is inexpensive... then again, none of it is cheap either.

MPM,

I know a couple of guys who would probably be turned onto the idea of doing this and if they're interested, I'm sure that I'll be involved with it in some way or another. Pretty much finished with mine or I might try it... then again I might anyways once I forget about all the bruised knuckles.

-Mindgame

 

Throttle Tip in. The large rush of air at very low TPS causes the car to go lean and it has a huge hesitation. Im pretty good with tuning, but I cant get rid of it. The ECM needs a delta TPS/MAP table like DFI systems but tunerCAT says it doesnt exist. Shrug. After it gets going its fine, just a drivability thing

 

I have one of these, and Accel's single plane EFI manifold. I'll be doing some engine dyno testing in about a week to compare a couple of different throttle bodies, including this elbow with an LT1 throttle body. I'll be happy to post the results if anyone is interested.

 

Pretty much finished with mine or I might try it... then again I might anyways once I forget about all the bruised knuckles.

-Mindgame[/QUOTE]



This looks pretty interesting to me. The 2 biggest issues I had in avoiding the single plane are hood clearance/price. This looks feasible, and kind of interesting. The biggest question is:

How much do you want to humiliate bikes?

Ryan

 

Love humiliating bikes too Ryan.

Love driving my stuff to the track and beating some of the trailer-cars too.

-Mindgame

 

Hmm, I've been waiting to read a post like this for almost a year. I picked up an Accufab monoblade designed for the DOHC Ford motor for cheap I've got a stock LT1 throttle body that I'll be hacking up to make the IAT stuff work with the monoblade I just need to build a motor that's big enough to use it first...

 

Do you think the Sullivan adapter with a dual TB would regulate the airflow better and improve driveability? Smaller single bore TB? What do you think the difference between a monoblade/sullivan adapter vs. single large bore throttle body (90mm+), would be, driveability-wise?

I guess my million dollar questions is:

What is causing the tip in problem above? The single plane intake, or the 90mm throttle body? My intuition says intake, but can anyone say for sure?

Ryan

 

Did a search...

A monoblade flows around 1300, and a 90mm TB flows around 1350ish. Knowing that, the empirical evidence (my monoblade/LT1 intake doesn't have issues vs. atljar's 90mm/single plane does have issues) supports the hypothesis of the single plane intake being the culprit of tip in. Thoughts?

Ryan

 

I think its a throttle body issue personally.

A few of the guys running single planes with the 4bbl TB progressive linkage stuff have no problems. The few people that have a stock ECM and 90mm have tip in (tony shephard is the other off hand name having same issue).

I also know that the LS1 FAST 90mm intakes have a nasty tip in problem too. They have a table that allows them to fix it though.

It could be that the shape of a monoblade lets in less air for the same TPS than a Round 90mm at same TPS. Another thought would be the position of the TB on the intake. A monoblade might just lean out the front cylinders on lt1 style intake, where a single bore on single plane leans them all out instantly. Just some thoughts, no evidence either way

 

I had a chance to "play" with "The Big Show's" 4bbl TB. The forward two blades open about 30% before the rear two blades start to crack. I've heard a couple of different guys say the 4bbl is better for driveability.

Let me ask you, does the tip in problem go away if you manipulate the throttle very carefully?

I'm wondering if this is a cam problem - throttle cam. The cam on the stock throttle body style (stock, BBK, AS&M) opens the TB slowly at first, and then accelerates the opening quickly. This regulates the airflow much differently that a 1:1 ratio. I'm wondering if this could be a porblem with the Ford single 90mm TB.

Can you add input to this? Have you tried to manipulate the tip in with your gas pedal? Is it possible?

Ryan

 

The slower you open the throttle, the less obvious the tip in is. Other words, slower Delta TPS, less tip in issue. If you go really fast, the car just bogs, stumbles, and pauses, then will rev.

Ive got a stock LT1 throttle cam welded onto mine. Bret (SStroker) said the same thing, I may try to tune it a little by turning the cam and seeing if I can get different acceleration rates. Havent had time recently to mess with it though.

 

It's not the intake... it's the TB.

That's why I'm working on a elbow that will work with a 58mm TB and single plane... BUT DON'T ASK ME ABOUT IT, it's taking some time that I don't have right now. When I make them I'm going to make 5 of them and they are spoken for anyways.

If you look at how much the 90mm and 58mm duals flow at low throttle openings I think you will see how much difference there is.

Bret

 

uh, I have a Nick Williams 90mm TB on my FAST intake. It has no tip in or driveability problems...AT ALL. It is still tuned for the stock intake/ported TB combo even. Why do LT1s seem to have a huge problem with this but not LSx or Fords? If you really wanted to keep an LT1 style TB it's not hard. It's just steel and/or aluminum fab, not black magic.