It's stuck that way... I can't fix it or I get an error.

 

If this thread is pointless, that means you have no point?

 

His point is that it's pointless. And really, it is pointless....but an interesting discussion either way.

 

I didn't read the whole post, got through 3 pages, but I thought I'd comment about the insurance aspect since I just yesterday had an hour long conversation with my insurance agent about this same thing.

I had a 2003 Tacoma 4x4 that we got rid of in March of last year, insurance on it was $130/mo full coverage. We got a 350z, insurance on it is $108/mo. Reason for the drop (it's obviously a much faster/more powerful automobile):

Full coverage covers the damage you do to others as well, my agent said that trucks cause more damage when they do get into wrecks than cars, which is why the truck was more expensive to insure. 4x4 adds to that as well. (this is why that one person who replied said his expedition was more expensive to insure than his 02 SS Vert)

Also, vehicle history has a lot to do with it as well. Take a vette, we were doing a quote on me on a Z06 ('01). That's only $95/mo. Why? Because people who own vettes are usually more mature and responsible than those who own Camaros.

All quotes were for above basic full coverage, I do carry more than that...for the rare instance I get in an accident and total a $100K car the other person might be driving. It's worth the small increase in premiums to get double on collision coverage.

I'm looking to get another F-Body soon, and it will only be $105/mo (even cheaper than the 350z). Reason for that...because the parts to fix a wrecked F-Body are cheaper than a 350z. There is a LOT that insurance companies consider when setting rates on cars, HP is just a small item in and of itself.

Also, it would cost more for me to insure a BMW 325i than a 02 SS...why? Replacement costs. Even though the SS is rated at 310hp and the 325i is rated at 210hp. And yes, it is good to be 27 with a multi car discount and your house insurance through the same company, you get all kinds of discounts.

**EDIT**

My agent said that the most expensive "normal" car she sees people insure are Neons. She said those things run on average $150/mo to insure because the will be totaled by backing over a mailbox...so build quality is something they look at too.

 

The European cars have a much higher average HP than the American ones do. Also, they have the Autobahn highway in Germany allowing cars to go as fast as they want. They don't have a problem with it and neither should we.

Insurance companies and Oil companies are the richest companies in the world. They are making boatloads of money because of these higher HP cars. You use more gas and it costs more to insure.

The problem drivers and the majority of accidents are those putting makeup on, reading a magazine, talking on a cell phone, or holding conversations with others in the car looking away at them to speak, falling asleep, driving drunk, picking something up off the floor, looking in their purse, yelling at their kids, daydreaming, sleeping, driving too fast for road conditions, etc. etc. etc.

The cars with more HP today handle 10x better than my old 72' Cuda on Bias ply tires with a crappy suspension. It did one thing well, went fast in a straight line. Try taking a Corvette Z06 out on the Autocross track with Active Handling on and tell me how it handles. It is AMAZING!!!! When I first drove one, I could not believe how awesome that car handled. I would rather drive that on the streets and highways than a big old tank (SUV) that handles like crap, takes forever to slow down, and is prone to flipping over. When and SUV hits you, especially the bigger ones (Excursions, Navigators, Escalades) you are going to be in big trouble. They kill a lot of people. Because of the size and weight of the vehicle. You are driving a Tank on public streets.

It doesn't matter what you are driving, Common sense must prevail.

Idiots will kill themselves in a Hyundai or a Ferrari, it doesn't matter.

Happy Holidays. Remember, Be responsible, Don't drink and drive. Brought to you by a gear head, and concerned CamaroZ28 member

 

Didn't realize how little I posted here and how much of a lurker I am. Join date of 1998, but this guy joined in 2003 and has how many more posts than me?

 

European cars on the average are much LOWER hp than here. Most cars over there are under 2.0L and many are diesel. Also, far few people have cars over there.


The insurace companies are making money, but they like their margins. Any car that will hurt those margins will get increased until the margin is back where they like it.

Exactly. Inattentive drivers cause many pproblems. It is not the speeders in high hp cars.


Tires have improved more than anything. The big difference today that offsets the saftey margin is the sheer number of cars on the road and the overcrowding of the freeways.

 

This reminds me of a saying, "when I can spin the tires from turn to turn on every road course in the world, then I will have enough hp."


I don't see this happening. Very high speed crashes are rare, and most will associate the speed with the hp since all cars can attain the speed at which most crashes occur.


Very true. For most people, the steering wheel turns into something just to hold onto during any kind of emerency that a good driver can avoid. I instruct for many clubs that hold road course events, and many people think they can drive so much better than they can, especially the older crowd (50+). It actually takes longer to teach an older driver than a younger one how to properly drive the course.

The lawsuit idea is a whole other problem. Personally, I think people need to be held accountable for their own actions and not try to displace the blame. I doubt that an automaker will ever be made to pay because a car is working properly. They might win in a lower court because of an incompetent judge, but they will end up losing eventually.

 

Just to throw my 2 cents in.Insurance companys do a point system as well as vehicle clasification when they figure insurance rates.They look at things like the amount of tickets nation wide a particular car may get,how many are totaled a year,the average age of a driver for a particular car,and like the other guy said price of the parts.A covettes ranks lower on the point system than say an 03 cobra because like someone has allready said a majority of the time those who can afford a vette normaly are a little older and much more mature as opposed to some high school kid pinching his pinnies to pay for a cobra(sorry bout the cobra reference chevy man all the way!)Then you have the wonderful sports car clasification and they figure more often than not youre gonna enjoy that power and probably have an accident.And to top it all off being men there gonna push the price up a lil more because men are normaly more aggresive drivers.Its a racket is what it boils down to in my opinion!

 

Also how high the theft rate is on a car i fogot about that!

 

my wife already said yes to the new camaro and im 33 (34 on 1/3/07), married and 2 kids.. our 96 houses us just fine....

 

I honestly believe our legislation is lagging the Auto Industry in amending laws that were designed for older, more archaic vehicles.
I would argue that more accidents are now being caused by low speed limits on freeways.
Bored drivers find themselves either falling asleep, or speeding to escape the madness, having to pass through a sea of slow moving traffic. And causing more vehicles to have to spend more time riding side-by-side at freeway speeds.
Today's cars can cruise at 60 mph at barely above an idle, some states have increased limits to 70 mph, which most drivers don't exceed 70-75 mph anyways, driving by feel-feedback.
As vehicles and roadways continue to improve, limits need to be increased, contrary to popular brainwashing; and then good driver training will be a must.

I long for the day as described in I-Robot...vehicles can drive themselves on mundain trips to the office, or you can switch to manual and enjoy a Sunday drive.(with several hundred horsepower or more..)

 

I'm happy just driving my 95 Z28 vert right now. When I started driving in 03 I hit a fence after I started driving by myself (low end torque > me). These cars can be really dangerous with a young person is behind the wheel. I think in general cars are becoming more powerful and I'm not just talking about 2 door sports cars. Remember in the 90's LT1 powered vehicles were some of the fastest on the road, now in their stock trim they can be beaten by some 4 door sedans. 250+HP cars and trucks are now getting to be a pretty common sight on the street.

 

You are correct... I know somebody who just dropped over $50k on mods alone, for his Z06. A forged 408 stroker, twin turbo setup, DTE Stg 5 rearend, CCW wheels, carbon fiber hood, fully built tranny, McLeod twin disk, etc. He barely drives the car, but he just HAD to have 1000HP.

 

I was 17 years old when I got my Trans Am. I powerslid the car all the time when I first got it and now it do it here and there and I never did it in dangerous areas (other cars, poles etc) that's what the f-body is for. It's a fun car, I dont understand driving a car for the look. Sports cars are meant to be driven.

As for not being able to handle a car? I'd take a new Z06 and be willing to bet I wouldn't crash it, I don't understand how you could crash it, take a turn too fast, oversteer in a powerslide? Know the cars limits and don't be a retard.