I realize that most enthusiasts like lot’s of HP and Torque and live by the adage “too much is not enough”…however, with some of the recent threads in this forum (as well as other sites) talking about HP in the 400 and up range for a (relatively) inexpensive sports coupe like the Camaro, I find myself more and more often asking when is enough HP actually too much?

I wonder if I am the only one concerned that unless the manufacturers who are producing these vehicles (vehicles with 0-60 in the under 4 second mark and top speeds approaching 200MPH) steps in of their own accord with a plan; then either the federal government or the insurance industry, or both, will.

Let’s face it, the average driver in this country can barely manage to park between the lines and about the only emergency maneuver they can handle is to stand on the breaks and close their eyes…if they had to take a real performance driving course before getting behind the wheel 80% would flunk. And even though most, especially on boards like this, like to think of themselves as great drivers, most ARE average.

Were I GM and producing 500+HP Corvette or a 400+HP Camaro I’d have to be at least a little bit worried about a multi-Billion $ lawsuit when some “adult” is stupid enough to let his 17 year old drive his Z06…now we can all say that it’s the parent’s fault for being that stupid but we all know it happens or the 17 year old will take the car without permission and it’s probably only a matter of time before some crack pot decides to blame GM for his bad judgment or his late son’s stupidity.

And how long are the insurance companies going to stay out of it?

How anxious are they going to be to insure a Z/28 with 400+ HP and is so widely available to the public? It’s one thing to have that kind of HP available in cars at or over the six figure $ mark since relatively few can actually afford them but the Camaro will probably be priced right in with a majority of cars available in 2009 – if insurance companies refuse to insure cars like the Z/28 or the insurance winds up costing more per month that the average payment, how many Z/28’s and their ilk will be sold (or continue to be produced)?

I’m not claiming to have an answer here…just thought I’d put this out for comments/see what some of you are thinking.

 

No such thing as:
To much Horse Power,
To much Money,
To much sex.

however if you have the money, then the other two are easy.

 

i thought i had heard somewhere that Chevy does require a performance driving test for buyers of the C6 Z06... i may be imagining that though

 

Most of what CamaroZ28 is about, is, modification of what F body you have. These are real car people due to each of our approach to modification, and, sharing with others. The F-body is a base for each to explore their own statement, and, quest for Engineering knowledge. Maybe you should consider another F-body and join the fun. My 97 is streetable, somewhat (Blown 383 - M6). I love push-rods.

 

I'm sure insurance will step in as soon as cheap cars with big HP numbers become more common. That's why 4th gens were more expensive to insure than vettes, or mustangs even. That's one of the reasons i wouldn't have minded a real base V8 in the 300-ish HP range rather than having the minimum V8 be some ~400hp thing. If chevy unloads 50k 400hp camaros a year (possible if they do really well and sell 120-150k units with 1/3 V8), A LOT will be wrapped around trees in no time, and insurance for the 5th gen will follow the rest of the generations relatively high cost.

 

It will be times like these when i will be thankful to be over 25 and married...

 

That woldn't be a bad thing if true but even if they are doing it for the Z06 I wonder if they would for a Z/28?

Many years ago, I read an article in one of the car mags that I though was an interesting idea (I belive it was in England) but many insruance companies gave a signifiacnt discount on their insurance to drivers who had completed a hig performance driving course which would be quite an incentive to take such a couse (and, hopefully, serve to make them better drivers).

Also, I believe it was, and may still be, common in Europe that "spped limits" were bases on the age of the driver as indicated by different badging on cars...teenagers simply weren't allowd to travel at the same speed as adults, etc.

 

Insurance will/is going to keep things in check.

The best thing for 400-500HP fans is the 250HP+ family cars. If your average V6 sedan is 300HP some day then 375HP for a Camaro doesn't seem like too much. Yet 375HP is a lot of power.

 

This very topic had been in my mind for a looong time.

In the HOT ROD poll, I wrote down that any customer buying a high powered car should be mandated to take a high performance driving school first. My current 310 HP Z28 is PLENTY enough for me. It's enough to cruise 90mph on the highway, and definitely more than enough around town. Sometimes, it's too easy to go too fast around town.

You know how many Vipers and Z06s are wrecked by "virgins" of high HP cars?

If enough inexperienced drivers wrecked 450-500hp 5th gens, insurance will probably go up with it (I remember paying $1200/year for a 1980 Z-28 in mid 90's. I told my agent the thing can't even go past 90mph. He said sorry, anything "Z-28" is high risk, no matter how old. The same went for RX-7s , Supras, etc).

We had a thread about a possible 500hp Camaro, and I replied that I don't think I can't handle that kind of car. Defintely too much car, not enough talent on my part.

In my opinion, the best mod anyone can do is a high performance driving school. I don't have any mods on my car, but by just reading and going autocrossing I'm enjoying my car a heck of alot more. Going to a Skip Barber school is next on my list.

All's I'm saying is, high HP cars sound like fun, but it can defintely be a dangerous weapon behind an inexperinced driver as mentioned by RN.

But, Z-28 is always about affordable fun, just like its big brother. So the majority here probably could care less about driving school when one can spend $3k on tangible mods (I know I would if I were in my 20's!).


On a semi unrelated note, AMG is saying they're more concern about being more efficient than making big HP now.
They're saying the current HP on their line of cars is just about enough. Currrently, they're slimming down a couple of their cars so they're more track friendly. Same powerplant, lighter car = faster around track.

A.

 

You know, you just inspired me to call my insurance agent about this. Who knows?

 

I know you get a discount with some ins. companies for taking a riding course for motorcycles in Indiana... dropped my insurance by like 10 - 15% I think. I think this would be a great idea for high HP cars...

 

Fbodfather has said before that us crazy gearheads only make up about 10% of their consumer base. so, believe me, GM already knows that they have to target the average joe and a LOT of women if they want to sell the car in the numbers they are aiming for. in a way, that makes it even harder for them because they have to please people on both ends of the spectrum. make the Camaro a V6 FWD puss-mobile and they'll never hear the end of it from the very vocal enthusiast community... make it too much of a race car and they'll only sell 10%. they have to tread a fine line to please us and the average joe. it's a completely different market from the Impala crowd.

(it was also brought up in Bowling Green about offering a driving school. while GM i'm sure does not have the staffing to coordinate that for us, i'm sure if we did it on our own, the insurance companies would give a discount like casull said.)

the insurance industry and government already have their hands in the proverbial pie. but if GM plays it's politics right, we can still get a bad-*** race worthy Camaro while John Q Public gets his "chicks-dig-me-cuz-i-have-a-Camaro-even-though-it's-only-a-V6" model. you know there are ways to get around all that type of stuff. just like the EPA ratings. produce enough good gas mileage cars and the SUV and trucks can guzzle all the gas they want (which is fine by me cuz i buy a truck to tow, not to get good gas mileage).

we already have the four-seater aspect in our favor. and i think if they make a high ratio of V6's as well, we should be okay. also, if our crash test standards are as good as everything else GM is making, then we should be fine. the law of averages has a lot of affect on these things. i don't know everything that's involved, but those are some things i can think of and believe me, GM is gonna have all their ducks in a row.

and also, don't forget about black boxes and the impending OBD3. with all of that... even if you are retarded enough to lend your 16 year old kid your 500HP Camaro, any lawsuit that might arise will likely get squashed in court once they see the driving recordings. if the driver is being a maniac, it will be there in black and white.

overall, i think we don't have anything to worry about. GM has been in the car business for a long time. they have experience with this stuff. they have a 505HP ZO6 out there and who would have thought we would have seen that awesome day! i trust that they will know what to do to give us what we want, give the average joe what he wants, keep the insurance companies happy, and the federal government off their back. no need to worry!

long live the Camaro!

 

I don't think its so much that the cars are getting too fast as much as the general public is getting worse at driving. Nowadays everyone wants to do something other than drive when behind the wheel. There's no more etiquette (sp?). I have friends that drive around 650 rwhp cars almost on a daily basis and have no problems. Then I see Darwin candidates out there who'll wrap a Geo Metro around a pole. What's the old saying;
"Guns don't kill people. People do."
I think cars are the same way. We need to look more at the driver and not the automobile.

 

I agree; however, it is a little difficult to control the type of people and/or their behaviors behind the wheel. Not to mention, I am sure there is a very strong correlation between the types of people who will buy a camaro and wreckless driving. If you can't control one's wreckless driving behavior you have to look for something else to control for, and the only other variable is the car. If you stick a person who is prone to wreckless driving behind the wheel of a 450HP they will then have the ability to drive more wrecklessly than if you stuck that same person behind the wheel of a 300 HP car.

In a perfect world our problems would be solved by not allowing people who drive like complete dumbasses to buy a camaro (or any high HP car for that matter)

 

DANG! Here I thought 'wreckless' driving was a good thing!