That there is no longer a large pool of consumers who are in the habit of buying new Camaros.

Put it like this. I've been closely following the 5th gen's developements for MANY years now. I suspect a 6th gen (if it comes), will be here in relatively short order.

And yes, I am looking forward to it.

 

Well you know Paul, I think you are a very persuasive guy. And who knows, something might click somewhere and I might have an epiphany. But at this point I'm totally turned off to be completely frank.

I could overlook alot of things. The bizzare interior, the gimmicky "torque gauge", the high sedan based cowl .... lots of things.

But if this sucker is coming in at the weight I believe it will, that's just plain a deal killer for me.

 

As in 35 Kilowatts...or 47 horsepower?


I see...

 

In light of the poll in this thread, this other poll is interesting: https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=615465

 

The COWmaro is back.... GAME OVER!

 

Why is that? This is an enthusiast website. Most of us are going to select V8 regardless of the price.

 

Ummm...

The same enthusiasts who voted 2 to 1 that cost was a concern in this poll, also chose that they'd be willing to pay over $35K for a Camaro.

 

Nice observation...

I am also looking forward to getting a CTS-V. In fact, there is a brand new one 2005 near by.

 

You say cost takes a back seat to weight by far. Ok Give the price points and weight you feel the following should come in at and the Mustang competition. Fill in the blanks for Cost and weight. Im curious.

Camaro COST WEIGHT

V6
SS
Z28


Mustang COST WEIGHT

V6
GT
GT500

 

I'm not sure of exactly what you're asking. The Mustang's costs and weights we already know. The Camaro's should be afew bucks and 200-300 lbs more than the equivalent Mustang.


I think...and maybe I'm wrong....what you're trying to say is, that we need to accept excess weight in the Camaro because Zeta will somehow be so cheap.

 

eh... not exactly what I was asking. I didnt know how to do it and that was my lame attempt at a txt version of an XL spreadsheet. What I wanted to know out of my own cuiosity was; If you were in charge what weight would you try to hit and also what cost. Then take those numbers and compare those cost and weight to the directly competing mustang models for comparison. I was just looking for reference points in terms of theoretical cost and theoretical weight realistically...

 

Holy smokes! Don't you think that's above my pay grade?

Lookit. Things are changing so fast now, you can barely keep up with developements on a day by day basis. GM is changing it's product line-up from top to bottom. Programs are being killed, cut, slashed, delayed minute by minute. Truck production has essentially stopped until further notice. Hummer is for sale and GM may drop another division or two in short order. GM stock is plummeting. GMNA is burning through $1 billion in cash per month. GM is scouring it's overseas divisions to incorporate every small engine and small car program possible into the North American market. All this because the consumer is now focused like a laser beam on fuel efficiency.

Could you think of a worse time to come along with a 6.2L, 4000 pound, Camaro?

Suffice it to say, that I think Camaro NEEDS to be lots smaller and lighter.

 

well I didnt know most of that and it comes as a shock. Good think I just started drinking. I still kinda feel like Im not being clear here though. Ill try one last time with my best shot. Saying you value weight over cost without what those values are is like saying money is no object. If money was no object you could go get a ZR1 which you mentioned was a great car but too much money. So if the ZR1 is too much cost than there is a threshold where money is of consequence.

Thus the question and Im asking for your quess. Assuming the current weight is actually 4k and its in the low $30's. Im sure you know closer numbers but thats my guess based on what youve said. SO a lighter car would be more money. How much lighter do you think engineers could get the car and at what price point before they price it out of what youre willing to pay?


For instance

Currently if you speculate the car is

$30k at 4k lbs

just for argument, suppose your ceiling is $35.

What is the $ amt that is your ceiling, and for that price if everyone agreed with you, how might lighter do you belive the car could be?

 

I wish that I had an easy answer for you, but I don't. I believe if Zeta could have been made lighter economically, GM would have done it. It's an architecture with a weight problem, and that's that. Sure, you could throw a whole bunch of money at it with exotic materials - but so what. Where would that take you? From 4100 lbs to 3950? BFD. This car is what it is.

Is it such a concern to me if the V8 is priced at $28,400 versus $27,950? No, not at all.

Is it a concern to me that this will be, *by far* the heaviest Camaro ever produced, just at the precise moment in time, when the market is demanding just the opposite? Oh yes it is.

 

And your point?

Again, the Camaro will be a MY2010 vehicle. With the state of the current economy anyone who thinks they'll be able to purchase a V8 Camaro for under $30k in 2009 is being a little foolish. I plan to purchase a MY2011 Z/28 so I know going into it I'll be paying north of $35k for it, thus why I chose that option.

I voted "cost" as being my concern because if that fully loaded Z/28 is priced closer to $50k, I may have to reconsider my purchase plans. I probably will still buy a Camaro, but may decide I can settle for a cheaper SS instead of the full blown super Camaro because of my financial situation. Thus cost is still a concern for me.

So I just justified why cost is a concern yet I'm still willing to pay $35k+ for the Camaro I want.

Are you still confused Charlie?